cerebral thrombosis??? + diet

Question
QUESTION: Hello!

Unfortunately I have to write you again. I wrote you on 1st January, because one of my two 2.2 year old rat-sisters was having diarrhea. You told me that the food was absolutely wrong, gave a link to your homepage, so I'm giving them home made food with the simplest Kellogg(rolled corn), oatmeal, rolled oats/rye/barley/buckwheat/wheat, pasta, grits, dried cranberries, dried strawberries, dried apples and bit of hemp seeds. Though they always leave the pasta out. I also don't know, what was meant with "Nutro lite dog food" as I've never had dogs. We can get dry dog-food as in this website (left column) http://www.majasmilulis.lv/lv/katalogs/get/shopcat/333/ Which ones of them could I mix in? How much?
Anyway, after I changed the food, the ill rat got healthy again. Thank you!

But day before yesterday I found out that the other sister has got ill. She was unsteady and very thin compared to her earlier, it seemed that she doesn't eat. The skin also was not so elastic as it used to be. I fed her a bit of banana, boiled potato (she didn't want babyfood and yogurt) and gave sugared water with pipette and she wanted to drink a lot. It turned out that she cannot lift her head and hands, that seemed the reason why she hadn't ate and drunk. I took her to vet (all-animal vet, who I used to go to before) She said that it's possibly cerebral thrombosis, gave her medication under skin yesterday and today and also tomorrow, but she said that it can be that the rat doesn't get better from it.

Still my rat is a bit better than yesterday. Though she still cannot walk and is moving just by somehow pushing herself forward and falling from one side to other. She cannot keep the food, but she can lift her head a bit. She cannot wash herself, but she is scratching sometimes with her hinder leg as usual. She is also sleeping most of the time and her eyes are usually between half shut and a bit more open, but not as it used to be. I give her cucumber, boiled potato and banana and hazelnut, but she manages to eat only half of all she have bitten. It seems like she cannot move her tongue properly.

My mother who knows a bit of medicine says that cerebral thrombosis is not an illness that can be cured and that I should not torture my little friend anymore. But I don't think that the rat doesn't want to live anymore. I know that you've big experience with rats, so maybe you can tell out of it, whether such rat can get better and eat by herself with such diagnosis?

I read that old rats should eat a soft, smashed food, but the other, more lively rat, would surely turn the plate over, mix with the shingles from bedding, and also, the ill rat likes to use the teeth, e.g. for cucumber. She just cannot get all the bitten food in the right place in the mouth, so I am not sure she could lick anything. On the other hand - someone has to hold that not-so-soft food for her and I'm away at work/school for most of the day.

Maybe you have also some other advice? I would be happy for any!

Thank you!

Agnese from Latvia

ANSWER: Hi


I really have to agree with everyone that your rat is seriously ill.

However, she doesnt have cerebral thrombosis, she has a pituitary adenoma.  Every sign is there, from the inability to use her forearms to grasp and hold food to the part where she cannot use her tongue. This is often seen in rats that are intact over the age of 18 months. Symptoms sometimes come on gradually over the course of a week or two but sometimes they are totally acute and often a vet that is non exotic will right off think its a stroke or series of strokes. I guess at this point it doesnt matter what the exact problem is, the truth is, she will not recover and will only get worse.  I fear death is very near. I would opt for a kind gentle euthanasia but the vet must also be understanding of the proper humane way to euthanize a rat, which is when the rat is totally under anesthesia before the injection is given. Any other way is unacceptable and even illegal to do in many states.

I am so sorry to have to give you bad news....I know you want whats best, and your mom knows too that prolonging this is not a good thing.  Keep her comfortable and warm and close to you if she wants held. She may lose her balance and walk in circles or spin in a circle if she can move at all.  Her front paws may curl up and she may not be able to use her mouth at all which means she will not get any nourishment at all.  

I am sure she is not able to understand what is going on with her and rats are so brave and strong, so she is going to fight this and not give up.  Most rats dont give up until their body stops working for them and they cant move at all.  You dont want to see her that way. She deserves to have quality of life and this is not any life for her. She will not recover. I wish I had better news.  :*(  
I have seen this so many times with clinic rats and my own, sadly.

I would not wait much longer.  Hugs to you and your sweet angel girl. Let her become an angel with the other rats that have passed on. She will feel better and you dont have to see her suffer any longer.



REVISED

I made a huge error by saying the vet must know the proper INhumane way to euthanize rats,  and I meant to say HUMANE.   Forgive the typo.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you for the fast answer! I now have had a good cry, talked to friends, kept my rat in hands, decided to bring her for euthanasia tomorrow and meanwhile searched advertisements for another brown/black rat which could accompany the other sister (sounds cruel as my pet is still alive, but I don't want the other rat get depression or some illness out of the loss too). During the search I stumbled upon a experience from another ratkeeper here. I'll try to translate:

"It began as disorientation, the rat got weaker, had brown liquid from eyes and nose. The diagnosis of the doctor was head tumor, because of weak coordination, she also could not move straight, turned all the time round as a wheel and the liquids also meant that there's something wrong in the head. She couldn't hold the food in hands by herself and couldn't sit on legs, was falling over. So -  a candidate for euthanasia.
I cured her by prednisolone and vitamin B injections. Gave sour cream, yogurt, children milk mix, butter at the beginning. After that - cheese, curd, soaked bread and pears. The coordination is good now and the rat is in fit and has got joy of living back."

Could that be different illness from my case (my rat doesn't turn around like a wheel, she just cannot go straight, because of falling from one side to other) or could my rat maybe also be helped by vitamin B and prednisolone injections? I trust your answer, but still while she is alive, maybe there's a tiny hope somewhere, which doesn't cause pain and doesn't make it worse.

Agnese

ANSWER: Hi again


I am glad you brought this up.  The person that wrote that, her rat did NOT have a pituitary tumor. What she probably had was an inner ear infection that was causing pressure on the 8th cranial nerve which controls equlibrium.  This is why her rat was spinning in circles. The treatment for inner ear infection is steroids to reduce inflammaion. Her rat got better because she had fluid in her inner ear that was putting pressure on the nerve.  The two mock each other.

The way to tell the difference between inner ear infection and a brain tumor is this:
If its from the inner ear:
The rat responds to antibiotics and steroids.

WHen its a brain tumor, the rat cannot use her tongue to eat and becomes weaker by the day.  Your rat has been on medication, right?
Maybe I missed that part, but I understood that your rat was given medication at the vets?

If NOT, there are a few things to suggest that the vet do for her. For starters, antibiotics should be given and steroids used if they have not been used.  If she doesnt start to improve or gets worse over the next few days, she for sure has the pituitary tumor and its not from the inner ear like the other girls rat.  

Its worth a shot, although because of the fact she cannot use her tongue, that is a big sign of the brain tumor (pituitary tumor.)

Here is more for you to read if you want about it on this site where people write about the same thing your rat has, but there is another website with an article explaining both.

Go to this site and scroll down to TUMORS and PITUITARY TUMORS:

http://www.ratfanclub.org/tumors.html

Go to this site to read about inner ear infection:

http://ratguide.com/health/auricle_ear/otitis_media_otitis_interna_labyrinthitis

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you very much! It helped to settle me down.

Yes, my rat was given medication. Some 3 kinds of it, but I cannot tell what those was, just the colors. Those all were given as injections. She is a little bit better today, but not much. I'll see about tomorrow.

P.S.
I read in your website that people have sent you photos, so you can get and use one of mines too. It is here:
http://agnese.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album32&id=IMG_4548

Answer
Just so you know, you can pick out any color of rat for your rats to love, it wont matter if they are the same color, just dont get real little babies or the older rats wont like that much.

Where do you live?  I take it your not in the United States?


Also, yes, find out what medication the rat has, try to write it down and let me know.  Also tell your vet that there is a slight chance this is involving the inner ear and the  vestibular cochlear nerve which could be making her dizzy and cause her to fall over and not be able to use her front paws.  She needs strong antibiotics and steroids. Again, I just dont want to get your hopes up high so take it one day at a time. I also dont want your little girl to suffer as I know you dont, so of course if after you try to treat it as an inner ear infection and she gets worse or no improvement after three days of aggressive treatment, you know that she cant keep up like that either. However, if she even shows a little improvement every day, thats very good.

Lets wait and see....I know you really want her to get better.  She is also an older lady too.  Rats life span is right between 2 and 3 years old in many cases.

Just keep me posted and I will help you best I can.  Thank you for the photo  She has beautiful colored fur!!!!