Mice : red spots on body

Question

Sap.mice   QUESTION: Hi
I have two pet mice.
at present their age is 3 months
Sometimes they do play or fight with one another, I don't know.
but nothing seem wrong

But before 4 days..i gave them a bath with water only. they were wet and at the same time I saw a blood spot on their head and back.
I let them dry and then kept them back in their cage.
after that they are behaving so inactively. they both look dull. And yesterday in the noon time their head was totally red. I don't know whether they fought or itched their body a lot.
one of the mice is comparatively suffered more. She is continuosly sleeping sometimes with open eyes she just lay at some corner of the cage.
I am feeling very bad for them
One of the mice who is suffered more she has lost some furs from the ear.
I have separated both of them now.
the one who in comparatively better , i have kept her outside the cage in a basket..she is quite active. but the one who is suffered more is totally inactive.
they both are very much suffered from itching.
so i decided to visit a VET. but here in Bhopal in India..there is no specialized VET for mice.
Still i called him and visited there. but i didnt feel that he knows deeply about mice facts.
he gave me an ointment (sofradex) and powder (candid)
VET also advised me to wash their cage with hot water as they may have suffered from fungal infection. i followed his advice.

I applied both the ointment and powder on their body. they were like crying due to pain. I dnt know they are relieved or not, as i cant see that red mark because of powder.
but they are still so very inactive and they just lay down with their eyes open.

one more thing that i wanted to ask is that is it compulsory to keep them separated? means will it affect them if one of them lick the ointment on other's body?
Please help me out.

ANSWER: Dear Sapna,

Oh it is so terrible when bad advice leads to mouse torture. This happened to me and one sweet mouse of mine, and that is why I originally started volunteering here. I managed to torture my mouse's skin three separate times on bad or inexact advice. It is terrible to watch them suffer. She needs a ton of love.

Please don't separate the mice. The sick one will get sicker if she gets depressed. The other one has already contracted the problem anyway.

There are a number of reasons for fur loss. One common one is mites. Having an outbreak of mites can also make the mouse vulnerable to getting sick.

At this point I recommend that both mice be treated for both mites and myco, which is what usually makes them sick. Depending on the method, the sicker one will get a stronger dose at the beginning.

For mites, the best way is to get Revolution or selamectin from your vet, who I hope has it on hand for cats and dogs. With this you apply one drop to the back of their necks, make sure it is on the skin and not the fur, and keep them from washing themselves for ten minutes.

If vets don't carry that in India-- and although I usually recommend a mite spray with pyrethrins by 8 in 1, it is also tough on the skin of a sensitive mouse-- I recommend ivermectin. There are two possibilities. By far the best is to get the liquid, which may be sold in large amounts (1/2 gallon or so) for cattle. You mix that 5 parts water to 1 part liquid, and work it  into the fur on their  backs. You can also get it as a paste, usually for horses, but it is so easy to overdose a mouse. You would give each mouse about the amount of less than 1/4 of a rice grain, by mouth. Just a tiny, tiny bit.

At the same time, I would treat them for illness. Usually I would wait to see if treating the mites took care of the health problem too, but this girl is too sick to wait.

The best thing would be for your vet to prescribe both Baytril and amoxicillin. They would each get one drop of each, by mouth or in a treat, twice a day for two weeks, even if they seem perfectly healthy.

If you can't get those, there may be another, less ideal option-- which has saved many mouse lives. I hope there are aquarium stores or pet shops which carry antibiotics for fish. The one I recommend is tetracycline, often called Fish Cycline. I wish I knew what is available in India (could you write back and tell me what you find?). If there is no tetracycline, there may be Amoxicilin, but I have to admit that I have never used that. Still, I know others who have.

Use the directions I give here, but do not give the well mouse the first dose:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Mice-3824/2011/5/Respiratory-Infection-mice.htm

If you had to get the amoxicillin instead of tetracycline, just do the same thing. Luckily amoxicillin and tetracycline are hard to overdose. I just hope using the same amount of amoxicillin is not an underdose.

For the very sick mouse, if you can just hold her quietly  (if she is a loving mouse) for a very long time, that will help. I have saved mouse lives from illness or poisoning by simply holding them for over 12 hours. It helps with warmth and love.

Do let me know which of the recommended products are available in India. I do get a few questions from India, and it is very hard to know what to recommend. And let me know how it goes.

Best of health and luck to them.

Squeaks,

Natasha







---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you so so much!

Following your advice, I have kept them together now. One thing that I have noticed is that the excretion process in one who is not well is affected.
She is not doing potty since yesterday morning after I washed the cage. The one who is quite well did that in basket , but in cage, she is also not doing it.

And they both keep licking or biting one anothers head. How would I know that they are fighting or helping or playing?
They do sleep together like lovely sisters, but still I am in doubt.

And the medicines available in India are - Baytril, Amoxicillin & Tetracycline.

and for the available mites spray please check this link -
http://www.indianpetstore.com/himalaya-scavon-vet-spray.html
Will it do the needful?

Thanks a ton!

ANSWER: Dear Sapna,


Sorry for the delay; I had to wait to get on a real computer to copy and paste your link. And I am glad I did, because this spray has nothing to do with mites.  I searched the site and found no mite treatments that I recognized.

The next place to look is something like a feed store. Remember I mentioned you can use horse or cow ivermectin? Surely your cows have parasites... You can call or email to a place like the following, and ask if they sell ivermectin liquid for cattle:

http://www.vxl.co.in/veterinary-health-products.html

My next recommendation is that you search around and find a university (thus trustworthy) laboratory which (sigh) experiments on mice, to call and find out what might be safe.



Another avenue to explore is whether there might be a fungus causing the skin and fur issue. It could even be ringworm -- the vet would be able to see that under a blacklight. More likely some other less horrible one that you can treat directly on the spots with something like an athlete's foot cream. Only a tiny, tiny bit because they will ingest it, and it can't be good for them.



The not going potty is bad; I certainly hope by this time they have. If it were just one I would think she was maybe constipated, and recommend a little oil and a small massage. But they wouldn't both be constipated.

If no one is bleeding, they are not hurting each other. Don't worry about that.

Did you start the Baytril and Amoxicillin? I am relieved that they are available in India.

I wish them the very best.. poor little mousies...

squeaks,

Natasha



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Its okay dear!

I am so sorry that in my last follow up question I told you that Baytril is available, it was like on call they said it is available, but when I visited there they said its not.
I got Amoxycillin (not Amoxicillin, I guess both are same, right?)

Yeah I remember about ivermectin. Actually here in India it is available with one more element i.e. Albendazole.
Is it safe for mice? As far as I researched, ivermectin along with albendazole is available in tablet form and not lotion.

I want to know the procedure of giving them both ivermectin (as tablet and lotion both) and amoxycillin.

Will ivermectin help them in recovery of their lost furs?

One query that I am having is every tube or spray or lotion mentions that "Not to be licked or ingested by pets"
but there are possibility that they both can lick one anothers affected parts after applying that. Won't it be harmful?

About my pets, they are recovered from the problem red spot on body, but they are facing loss of fur and also the skin visible seems so dry and they keep itching it.
Is it true that giving something sweet results in fur loss in mice?

Thanks a lot!

Answer
Dear Sapna,

You should be using the amoxicillin. Use it for two weeks. That is how long the medicine stays potent after mixing, and must stay in the refrigerator.

I do not trust albendazole. Parasite treatments are poison, and can make an animal very, very sick. I do suggest you find a lab which has mice and ask. Or research it online (which I would help with if I were at home on a computer).

I also am not familiar with the lotion or tablets! I have no idea how to dose them. With the horse paste it would be the size of a pinhead internally, and with the cattle liquid it would be mixes 5:1 water:medicine and rubbed into the fur on his back. Unfortunately I do not even know what these doses are, since these products are standard.

Can you search for an exotics or pocket pets vet anywhere in your country, and talk to them by phone? That would really be preferable.



There is another way that rats are sometimes treated, but I really hate to do it to a mouse. It is with olive oil. I really don't like the idea of putting a mouse through this. You would take the poor mouse and actually coat its fur in olive oil. This actually suffocates the mites. It is a last resort, and very stressful.

You have to do this when you have several hours free, because you must stay with the mice the entire time. I suggest doing this in the bathroom. You must use olive oil; any other oil can lead to diarrhea, which easily leads to dehydration and death. The same goes for using too much oil. Take a half teaspoon of the oil. Rub it thoroughly throughout the mouse's fur and skin. Now they need to be occupied for an hour. They are absolutely going to want to spend the hour washing themselves, and you can't let them. Wear something that can get oily. You may be able to get them to run in the wheel a little, but otherwise either keep them snuggling or keep them moving (of course don't be mean). They absolutely must stay warm, because mice can easily be chilled. You must stay with them. After the hour, you will carefully bathe them. Although you mention you have done so before, mice should not have baths. But in this case it would be necessary. Give them lots of treats to try to make up for it. Do this once a week for three weeks to get the mites which were in eggs at the time.

As I say, I hate to do this to a mouse. It is far more dangerous than to a rat. A mouse has much more surface area as compared with its volume than a rat does. And they are more delicate. But if there is nothing else available that doesn't endanger their health- do try to find out about the albendazole- it is better than letting them suffer.

I am really worried about your mice. At least one is in poor health. She may not be savable. The olive oil treatment is dangerous due to risk of getting chilled and risk of diarrhea. If either one gets diarrhea, she needs fluids. You may have to use an eyedropper and give fluids  by mouth.

Keep me posted. I hope they recover well.

Squeaks,

Natasha