Please help! Very ill ferret!

Question
QUESTION: Hi! I originally really wanted to ask you my question because you seem extremely knowledgeable in this area and have helped a lot of people out but it said retired or something like that by your name last night.. I've read tons of your answers and I know about adrenal gland disease.. I'm afraid my ferret Lola has it. here's my original post.. it's kind of long but i wanted to make sure she knew the details.

http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&catID=2277&expID=112524&qID=4876223

Anyway, Lola's already gotten his first Lupron shot a little under a month ago but it hasn't gotten rid of any of his symptoms at all.. in fact they are getting worse. He already has a big patch of fur gone on the side of his neck but now its going down his back along his spine.

I had hand fed him and got his weight back up but now he's losing it really fast. He's been really really aggressive with my other ferret Bandit, even though they've been together since they were little..

I know that these are all because of adrenal disease but why isn't the Lupron working then? His symptoms are worse than ever.

Just this morning i noticed he was making sounds like grunts when he went to go poop and when i picked him up his bum looked really inflamed.. about 4 times bigger than Bandits.. I read online to put some prep h on it so i did.. i hope it helps the pain..

I don't know what to do right now (the vet won't be open until monday and there's no others here that will take ferrets) Are these new symptoms even related to adrenal disease? or could he have something else wrong with him.. I've left out quite a bit of stuff about them.. they're in the other post.. (like they're both on revolution for fleas/mites/everything) please tell me anything you think could be wrong with him and what i should do.. :(

ANSWER: Hi Chelsea:

Much of the information you got from your first volunteer sounds pretty accurate. I would question two things that I've heard so far.  

One:  You mention that you are feeding him a "vitamin food gel" or something to that effect. Is this Nutical? Because that's just to be used like a vitamin *supplement*, not to eat instead of food. Ferrets are obligate carnivores, which means they MUST eat meat and/or meat byproducts of some kind for their diet - NO other foods will substitute. Some people even add sugar to their ferret's foods and ferrets, just like little kids, can develop a sweet tooth and get where they won't eat anything unless it's sweet, and they will put on weight for a while, but inside, they are rotting their insides away and their organs are slowly failing. So, unless I have mistaken, please get this little guy onto a post-surgical/post-illness high protein FOOD called Hill's A/D feline canned food. You can get it from the vet's office. Warm a tablespoon or so im the microwave for about 10 seconds, add a few tablespoons of water, stir until like gravy. Dip your finger in and touch inside ferret's mouth so they have to taste it because they will reject anything new at first. Keep at it and don't give up - he needs the high protein chicken that is in this easily-digestible food. I feed my kids all they will eat of this four times a day when they are sick. Once they get used to it and like it, they usually eat at least 3 or 4 ounces at a sitting. Store unused portion in the refrigerator. A can lasts a day or two once they get used to it. And watch ANYTHING (even treats) you give your kids and don't give them anything with sugar in it - that's anything that the word ends in "ose" such as "sucrose", "glucose",etc...also NO fruits of any kids and no vegetables of any kind; ferrets have a stomach that does not have a 'caecum' which is required to digest fruits and veggies, so those items just cause tummy problems. It has recently be discovered that sugar *in ANY form* causes insulinoma in older ferrets, so all "oses" and sugars are absolute no-no
s.READ ALL LABELS..that's critical for anything that goes into our ferrets mouths.

The other thing I wanted to question is the dosage of Lupron you are giving. When my first ferret went on lupron ($185 per monthly dose), I found out there is a MONTHLY dose and there are 4-6 month DEPOT DOSES ($255/depot dose). His first dose was a monthly dose because I didn't know any better. He got no better. Sounds exactly like your little guy as a matter of fact.  BUT - and here's the good news - when I ordered the stronger six month DEPOT DOSE (which is given in the hip muscle, so the vet MUSt give it), within just a few days I noticed a different ferret. He calmed right down and that was almost two years ago. It is ALWAYS better to remove the adrenal gland if the ferret is otherwise healthy - removal of the gland is PERMANENT and 100% CURE of adrenal disease. Surgery here for adrenal disease runs between $200-$1,000 - my ferret had other problems that make him not a good candidate for surgery or,trust me, he'd be having surgery asap! And as far as having an ultrasound before the surgery, I wouldn't waste the money - a ferret with so many symptoms, the general thought here in the states is to just go in and remove the gland - it's cheaper than the ultrasound....UNLESS there is some other underlying physical problem why surgery would not be good for the ferret.

My recommendation would be NOT to spend money on an ultrasound - spend it on a six month DEPOT dose of lupron.  IF that doesn't work, then try the ultrasound, as there just must be something else going on.

Regarding the inflammed anus, does he lick it a lot? Maybe it has to do with the diet you are feeding him. Get him on a meat diet and yet, you can use hemmorhoid cream if it stays inflammed - do show it to your vet though.

I don't see anything here that indicates a blockage, which is always my first concern because it can take them so fast from us. I just don't see any indication of that, so you can take a deep breath.  The flea meds may actually be causing them to have an allergic reaction. Can you get some adhesive white tape and put it down,fluff thru the ferret'sfur and then check the tape to see if any fleas dropped from the ferret?  I wonder if you are treating a problem that isn't there - just trying to think outside the box here and *take nothing for granted* and would encourage you to do the same. Sometimes the cures are worse than  the problems and can cause so many problems of their own.

Any ferret who *has too much energy* needs more one on one rough and tumble play time, no matter what the cause is. Take even 10 or 15 minutes and do nothing but fluff him in a blanket, chase and tickle him, roll balls for him; whatever gets him going silly.Give him a bath, then chase him is even better because it will get him going silly for you.  Yes, it's probably energy caused by adrenal disease,but he still needs to get the energy out or he will take it out on your little girl ferret or bite at you, etc.  He should still be told "NO!" when  he does these non-acceptable behaviors; redirect him to another activity. Let him know he can't bite and get away with it. ..discipline, but do it with love, knowing that he is misbehaving because he is sick, but he does still need to be disciplined. That way, when he gets better, you will be able to notice a difference:-)

Best of luck to you. Hope I've answered at least a few questions. Oh, the other thing...compare prices for adrenal surgery.Prices here in the states run from $200 to $1,000 - call around and get estimates, just make sure the vets are all experienced,  Here is a list of experienced vets in Canada submitted by other ferret owners in Canada - hopefully some in your area - sometimes it's cheaper to travel to get a good price if it's a doc with a lot of experience!

VETS CANADA:   
* http://www.ferretrescue.ca/start.php
* http://tinylink.com/?TlVyYKa6e0
* http://www.ferrets.org/Veterinarian_Listings.htm   (British Columbia)
* http://www.ferretcentral.org/for-others/db-vets.html
* http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/sask_ferrets/

And here are some Shelters - if there are any in your area - they ALWAYS know the vets with the most experience and the cheapest prices! Be sure to check with them....

* http://www.ferretfacts.com/ferret-shelter-directory-international-ferret-shelter

Best of luck to you. I will keep you and your little ones in my thoughts and prayers. Please update me and let me know how this turns out or if I can be of any further help, please don't hesitate to write again.  You had trouble getting in before because there is a limit to how many questions I can take a night, but if you use this letter to "ask another question" or however it's worded, I have it set so that people I've previously worked with will override the system and go through anyway - so you're in now! :-)  Just hang onto the link!  Hope to hear from you soon.

Sincerely,

Jacquie Rodgers

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: thank you SOSOSOSOSO much you don't even know how much you've helped!

I took him to the vet as soon as i could and we gave him another shot of Lupron.. so far we have gotten 2 monthly shots at about 60$ so I will look into a Lupron Depot, his vet said they would try to order a melatonin depot but I will ask them about the Lupron one too. (We don't really have many ferrets in Edmonton, so a lot of the stuff they have to order and don't know much about)

They have eaten the same stuff we bought them with because I heard you shouldn't change their food because it could make them very sick. The vitamin stuff i've been feeding him (sorry I can't give the exact name because we're out of it) said on the back it could be a meal replacement so i'm not totally sure it's the same stuff you're thinking of but don't worry, i usually drizzled some on some food for him so he still got his food. The treats they get are all chicken, beef etc and some peanut butter ones :) and recently my mom has helped me out by giving me some of her cat food leftover from my sick cat blackjack :( (he had diabetes so we gave him daily shots and eventually developed cancer) I believe it is the same stuff you are talking about but duck flavoured. She didn't like it at all when I tried to give her it but I haven't tried heating it a little and making it soupy so I will try that tonight! I also tried some chicken baby food (Bandit loved it) but Lola, not so much so i'll try heating that one too.

I also asked about his breathing problems and they gave me some fluid antibiotics for him incase he has an upper respiratory infection, so far i havn't noticed much of a difference but it's only been a couple days.

I will definitely try to get all of his energy out so he doesn't use it on Bandit.. My boyfriend usually chases them around and stuff but i'm always worried they will be scared of me or something but lately i've been trying to get him moving more.

I really forgot to ask about his bum at the vet but after using the prep h on it, it has started to look a lot better. It's just a little bit inflamed still but not nearly as red and his poops are a lot better.

Now my only concern is the adrenal and his recent problems peeing...
I asked the vet about it and they didn't really mention anything they could do about it except for surgery.. They told me it should be fine as long as he doesn't cry in pain while he pees, or nothing comes out.
It's lately just been a tiny tiny bit and it sometimes takes him a couple tries before he can get it out. Please tell me what I can do? I know this problem in male adrenal ferrets is very serious and could be fatal so I want to make sure I know my options.
Thank you again, really.
Chelsea

Answer
Hi Again Chelsea:

It's really important that you don't get Lupron and Melatonin confused.  In my opinion and experience Melatonin was completely useless AND was incredibly painful for the ferret to receive. I would NEVER let another ferret of mine receive a Melatonin injection = there was no difference that I could tell and it was so painful that he literally jumped free of the vet's and my grasp with the needle still sticking out of his neck!!  I was appalled - he bled for about half an hour after we got the needle out. I was so upset that I was crying. The vet said she had to use a bigger needle because Melatonin is thick, so it's hard to give. Had she told me that beforehand, I don't think we'd have gone for it.  ONLY THE MONTHLY LUPRON DEPOT was effective for us.

HOWEVER, and this is important, once a ferret gets to where your ferret is - when he is having trouble urinating, is dribbling and obviously straining to do that - it's imperative that the ferret have the adrenal gland removed AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.  You don't want to wait until he cannot pee....what if that time comes in the middle of the night while you're sleeping and you don't see it and his bladder ruptures?  The straining and dribbles you see now ARE THE WARNINGS to get surgery NOW.  I guess I didn't understand that he was that far along in your previous letter.  If your vet doesn't do surgeries, please please find one who does and get the surgery for this little guy before it's too late.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your precious little one. Please write and let me know he's well and doing fine after surgery. I will keep him in my prayers till I hear from you.

Sincerely,

Jacquie Rodgers