Potty-training 2 dogs in multi-dog household

Question
We have a total of 8 dogs in our large house.  We are both retired and at home most of the time.  A huge yard is available for playing, running & doing "potty".  Most of our dogs are rescued.  The latest two joined our family about 7 months ago - and are small adult dogs. We have been lucky that all others have "caught on" to doing their business outside, but not these two.  They go out at least 10 times a day - but still do it inside the house.  
We have to get our carpets cleaned - and need to solve the problem prior to that.  We can never catch them in the act, because they run around with the rest of bunch.  If we do crate them, how and where can we do that.  Should we lock them in a spare bedroom (hate to isolate them like that) or around us (with the other dogs possibly making the crate-training worse)?  HELP!

Answer
When you are around you need to keep a close eye on those dogs.  Use closed doors or gates to keep them in the same room as you are, and perhaps as I do, a short chain fastened to the computer desk.  If you catch one of them in the act, give it a sharp ''Ah, ah, ah!'' and take it out.  When you can't watch them, crate them.

If you are giving the dogs good leadership, they should accept you choosing to crate whatever dogs you choose to.  It is only natural that a puppy resists its crate at first.  What the puppy wants more than anything else is to be others, you, anyone else in the household, and any other pets.  In our modern society, even if we are home, other things distract us from the attention an uncrated puppy must have.   The only real solution is to crate the dog when you aren't around.  The dog may be happier in its den than loose in the house.  It relaxes, it feels safe in its den.  It rests, the body slows down reducing the need for water and relieving its self.  Dogs that have been crated all along do very well.  Many of them will rest in their crates even when the door is open.  I think the plastic ones give the dog more of a safe, enclosed den feeling.  Metal ones can be put in a corner or covered with something the dog can't pull in and chew.  Select a crate just big enough for the full grown dog to stretch out in.

Leave it some toys.  Perhaps a Kong filled with peanut butter.  Don't leave anything in the crate the dog might chew up.  It will do fine without even any bedding.  You will come home to a safe dog and a house you can enjoy.

A dog that has not been crated since it was little, may take some work. Start out just putting its toys and treats in the crate.  Praise it for going in.  Feed it in the crate.  This is also an easy way to maintain order at feeding time for more than one dog.

The "shut the puppy in a safe room" is a fallacy.  Very few houses even have a safe room.  How many of us have a room with a hard surfaced floor and nothing else?  Most rooms have electrical cords to chew if nothing else.  In addition to destroying anything a bored puppy finds to chew, it may choke or have intestinal  blockage from the pieces.  I had a friend that left her dog in a "safe" room.  It ate a hole in the floor covering.  The safe rooms fail to give the dog the comfort of the enclosed space their instinct requires.  Nor do they restrict activity extending the time the dog can go without relieving itself.

The key to most behavior problems is approaching things using the dog's natural instincts.  Dogs see all the people and dogs in the household as a pack with each having their own rank in the pack and a top dog.  Life is much easier if the 2 legged pack members outrank the 4 legged ones.  You can learn to play the role of top dog by reading some books or going to a good obedience class. A good obedience class or book is about you being top dog, not about rewarding standard commands with a treat. Start at http://www.dogsbestfriend.com/  For more on being top dog, see http://www.dogbreedinfo.com./topdogrules.htm