dusty skin has us stumped

Question
QUESTION: Hi

I have a 4 yr old female American Cocker who has the vet and I stumped. She has been a raw feeder since I got her at 10 weeks and always thrived, no ear or eye or any other problems and her coat was always brilliant shiny black. Last year her coat started to get dusty. It's a sticky dust too, very fine (much finer than the usual dander type stuff dogs get), clings to everything, and is almost waxy when it builds up on places like the base of her nails or other hard surfaces. Her coat still looks gorgeous when freshly washed but goes dull with the dust in a matter of hours. She is not itchy or bothered at all but I am because she looks dull and that dust is all over me, my car, my house and just isn't normal IMO. If she lies down on a white blanket, it goes grey. When she is being bathed it looks like grey/black dirt is just rolling off her when in fact she's very clean otherwise (she's not the type to roll around or get muddy and in winter, there really is no dirt around so that can't be it).

So for the past year we have tried a few things:
- multi-vitamins which the vet said worked on other dogs' coats... nothing happened
- adding concentrated omega oils the vet gave me... nothing happened
- sneaking some veggies into her food (she's pretty picky but eats a lot of chicken, salmon, beef.. refuses all fruits and veggies and other meats or fish)... nothing happened
- had a blood panel done by Jean Dodds who noted a slightly hypothyroid condition so she's been on 600 mcg Eltroxin since then... nothing happened
- tried tea tree skin spray (for pets) and her coat looks nice for a few hours but rubbing it into her coat makes my hands go black and sticky (the dust sticking to me I presume) and I can just roll the resulting goo off my fingers
- tried various shampoos, all seem fine but you can see the dust rising again really quickly regardless of which is used.

My vet suggested maybe she had something going on in the way of an infection/inflammation (shown in blood tests, nothing major, just a bit of an imbalance) so we put her on Amoxil for 10 days. Dust stopped. The day after the pills were done, it was back. So he put her on another round, this time for 30 days. Same thing, dust stopped. New with the latest round was she started getting some zits so it seemed something was working it's way out. Some zits look pretty normal (filled with puss), some have hard little heads that almost feel like waxy sand (I assume a build up of the dust) that can be removed with a finger nail.

That round of drugs is finished, and again, the dust is back. Today he squeezed a lump on her back and out came what I can only describe as tiny white beads in something that almost looked gelatinous. The lump was about the size of my thumb nail and barely raised and sort of felt like a fat lump. The contents were just weird looking to me. I asked if it could be eggs of some sort, he said no, just a sebaceous gland that needed clearing with lots of little pustules in it.

Meanwhile, as experienced as he is, he says he really hasn't seen anything quite like this before. There are no scabs, no redness, no itching and otherwise she is in top form. He's thinking either I see a dermatology expert (which I'd rather avoid if I can) or try another round of antibiotics but a different one this time in case the other isn't quite catching whatever is going on. I have to say I am not really happy at having her on antibiotics for such long runs so I put the new drugs on hold until I can see if I can find anything new out.

This is my first Cocker so I really don't have a lot of history with this breed and have asked on Cocker lists and they tell me it's not typical and had the same suggestions as my vet. I've spoken with other black Cocker owners, both kibble and raw fed, and none have had this issue. I did see another black dog (a lab I think) who seemed to have it but the owner hadn't even had it checked.

Do you have any ideas or suggestions as to what this might be? I would really like her shiny coat to show again for more than a few hours and have to believe this is a sign something is out of whack. I'd sure appreciate some help figuring this out.

MJ



ANSWER: You've done all the right things - especially having her thyroid checked.

Here's what I'd do at this point.  Get some Nizoral shampoo (favorite with vet Dermatologists) and for a week bath her daily.  You can get it at most any supermarket/drugstore.  You have to lather her up and leave it on for 10 minutes.  Then rinse-rinse-rinse.
And using a cloth or sponge - gently but firmly exfoliate her skin
while she's lathered up.

After her bath, give her a colloidal oatmeal soak.  You can buy Aveeno (comes in a box with packets of powder).  Fill tub - mix in one packet and soak her for 10 minutes. (Generic is fine - read label - must say 100% colloidal oatmeal).

Take your kitchen timer - feels like an hour :)

Don't rinse after the oatmeal soak - just towel dry.

And any time she's on antibiotics she should also be getting a good probiotic.  The meds kill ALL bacteria, even the good guys :)

The Nizoral will take care of any yeast-bacteria-fungus and the oatmeal soak will re-hydrate and pull toxins out.

So let's see what happens after a week - if it's good, you go to every 2nd day bathing - then 3rd - and alternating the Nizoral with a gentle dog shampoo.

My guess is dry seborrhea.  I know this is a lot of work but you sound like the type of owner who'll do it.  If she's not clipped down, I'd do that - will make it easier on both of you.

Delores



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Delores

Thank you for the speedy and informative response. So you think this may be something right on her skin vs coming from inside her (some sort of toxin or whatever)? If the treatment does work, how would I know? Is there a period of time where something like this shows improvement (you mentioned once a day for a week so if we do that and then go every other day, would I see her dust being gone or lessened in that time frame or does it take longer or is it a forever type of thing?)?

I picked up the products you mentioned tonight and will give it a try. Can I water down the shampoo a bit to make it less concentrated (otherwise I see a bottle lasting maybe two days) and to keep it from being too much for her skin? I guess I am concerned since she gets bathed more like once every 4 - 6 weeks usually as I've been warned their skin can dry out.

I have to say, this dog does not like water, being wet, or thinking about wet, so she is not going to be impressed I don't think. She likes the hair dryer even less so fingers crossed the sunny weather they are forecasting will make this easier on her.

MJ

Answer
You'll know very quickly if this works.  No, don't water down the shampoo - it lathers up pretty well and don't worry about her skin drying out.  The excessive rinsing (and I do mean rinse her well, when you think you've rinsed enough, do it 10 more times) and the oatmeal soak will re-hydrate her skin. (do not rinse after soak)


If she's fussy about baths, include some treats.  If it's sunny & warm, towel her well and get her out for a walk.

No, it won't be "forever" :) if she responds well but the key to topical therapy working is beginning daily and then cutting down.

I'd also seriously think about an 8 week trial of Vitamin A.
Cockers have a syndrome (named after them) called "Vitamin A Responsive Dermatosis in the Cocker Spaniel."

Basically here's what a good vet Dermatologist would do first:
1.  Thyroid test
2.  Address any actual infection with antibiotic
3.  Vitamin A trial
4.  Topical therapy as I've described
5.  Wait !

I'd also question her diet and wonder if she's getting enough fat.
You seem to be an informed owner so I'm assuming you've done your homework on raw feeding.  There's a group on Yahoo called K9 Nutrition, run by Lew Olson who's very good if you want to see if her diet needs tweaking.  I do homemade myself (but not raw) but as with people one size doesn't fit all.

Please let me know what happens after a bath or two because it can be a bit of experimenting to get the right shampoo and the right rinse.
I went to the Nizoral first because her skin responded to antibiotics which tells me it's bacterial.

And feel free to write me directly...this can get chatty :)
DeeBeck7765@aol.com