Breathing/Rattling.

Question
QUESTION: Hi.
About a month ago I had to take our pet rat to the vets as he'd started to sneeze and rattle he wasn't too bad and the vet (who has told me he doesn't see many rats)put him on 0.1 Marbocyl twice a day for a week, he said it was only an upper respitary infection.
After this course of antibiotics it cleared up for a few days then came back even worse, the vet put him on 0.1 Marbocyl twice a day for two weeks but this time it had no effect, in fact the rattling got even worse.
The vet has now put him on a quarter of a tablet of Noroclav 50mg twice a day for a week and told me if he isn't any better then he'd need an X-ray to see if it had gone to his lungs.
He has nearly finished the course but is no better and rattling like an outboard motor.
He's about 10/11 months old and quite a big rat with a healthy appetite, there's no porpherin around his nose and apart from the really noisy rattling seems OK.
I looked up what these two drugs were, as whenever I've read about breathing problems it always seems to suggest Baytril, from what I can gather Marbocyl is the same drug but with a different trade name.
But when I looked up Noroclav it said it was an antibiotic for dogs and cats, which is really bothering me.
The vet did tell me thats all he had in, and seeing as he mainly treats larger animals thats understandable, he's very nice and trying his best, but I'm wondering if my pet is receiving the right treatment.
I'm very worried about him, can you help please, what should I be doing for him.
Many Thanks, Lynn.

ANSWER: Hi Lynn

I am going to take a stab at this and say your in the UK? Seems many people that come to me for help are located in the UK.
What your vet gave your rat is from the same family as baytril also known as enrofloxacin, which is from fluoroquinolone group, as is marbofloxacin. The big problem with mycoplasmosis, which I am pretty sure your rat has that is invading his respiratory system, is that when it is not treated long enough, it comes back right away and is much stronger the second attack. Without being on antibiotics the proper length of time, this gives the bacteria a chance to cause lung scarring among the tissues.  Mycoplasma is the same bacteria that causes tuberculosis in humans. Dont worry, we cannot get it from our rats as it is species specific. Like TB, myco will leave scarring and lesions and even blistering on the lungs and it becomes chronic, often turning into emphysema which becomes a lifelong thing.
Because your vet only gave your rat the Marbocyl for one week the first time, he relapsed the second time and the strain of myco was much more strong and required a different antibiotic because often when the medication is not used properly, right off, the bacteria can become tolerant to the drug.
The norclav is nothing better than  Amoxicillin which will do NOTHING for mycoplasmosis.  Dont worry that the drugs are used for dogs and cats because most drugs are used for other species as is marbocyl and baytril too. The problem with norclav is that it will not work on myco for this reason: Myco is an organism that has no cell wall. Most antibiotics work to attack the wall of the cell in bacteria but with myco, few medications can do that and kill it without a cell wall. Baytril, cipro (same thing as baytril, only humans can take cipro and cannot take baytril since it is for animal use only) and also zithromax are the few drugs that can attack the bacteria directly without involving the cell wall of the organism.
I guess what I am saying is that you are right to assume your rat is not getting the correct treatment for his ailments.  He needs to have the proper medications to help with his lung disease starting witht he right antibiotics.
If your vet said he doesn't have anything else, is there a way you can find a vet in your area that treats rats or at least carries the proper medication needed?  Your rat needs to have the correct antibiotics and also if possible, have them nebulized right into his lungs the first few treatments in order to attack the bacteria right off.  Once your rat responds to the medication, he will need to be kept on it for the rest of his life to prevent relapse. Now, most general vets will probably not even understand what this is all about since they do not specialize in rats and the treatment of rat disease, but when your dealing with chronic lung disease this is the only way to go or your rat will continue to relapse and each time it will be worse, with him gasping and wheezing and  possibly it can turn into pneumonia.  He should be put on medications to help open his airway such as albuterol and also steroids to help with the inflammation in his lungs too as well as the proper medication which is baytril and doxycycline.
I can try to help best I can to find a vet in your area that treats rats but if you live in the UK which I suspect you may, it wont be as easy but I do have a list if you can give me your area.

I hope this helps understand what it is your rat has wrong. The fact he has no porphyryin discharge is a good thing and if he is eating and drinking, thats also good....lets try to keep him on the right track before he has another relapse.

Please post a follow up so I can continue to help if needed.

Good luck

Sandra Todd

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hello Sarah.
Thank you so much for answering me so quickly, your right I do live in England, and finding a vet that's good with rats around here has been a problem, I just don't know where to go.
I have phoned a few locally but haven't found one who seems to know much.
It would be great if you could recommend one.
My address is - 15,Rounds Hill Road, Coseley, Bilston, West Midlands.WV14 8JS.
The nearest towns to me are- Dudley/Wolverhampton.
I don't mind travelling if there's a good vet in the surrounding area's.
In the meantime untill I can get him the right medication what can I do for him, I'm assuming it's not worth giving him the rest of the medication I've got.
I've tried putting him in a steamy bathroom, it didn't help, and I've put vitamins in his water, but obviously these can't help him much, if at all.
I will try and get him to a new vet as soon as humanly possible.
Again thank you so much, Lynn.

ANSWER: Hi Lynn

I would give him the Noroclav just to help keep secondary infections away such as strep which amoxil is good for. I am sure his immune system is a bit weak, so the vitamins are a good idea. Keep him very well hydrated,too.

We need to kill the bacteria or at least hold it at bay, so I will give you a list of every single vet I know of that is listed as an exotic vet in the UK. There are not many but hopefully someone is nearby.  
Perhaps even calling one of them even if they are far away maybe they can help you find a traditional vet that still knows more about rats than the norm. Its worth a shot.

**********
Dr. John Chitty
Strathmore Veterinary Clinic    
London Road
Andover Hants SP10 2PH
Phone:    

  
Mr. Richard Grubb
Calder Veterinary Hospital    
Savile Road
Dewsbury West Yorkshire WF12 9LN
Phone:    00441924465592
www.caldervets.co.uk

Dr. Alistair Lawrie
The Lawrie Veterinary Group    
25 Griffiths Street
Falkirk Central Scotland FK1 5QY
Phone:    01324--624361
  
   
Dr. Victoria Runyeard
Heath and Reach Veterinary Surgery    
Kingswood Farm
Heath and Reach Beds LU7 0BA
Phone:    +44- (0) 1525 23744
  
Dr. Peter Scott
Zoo & Aquatic Veterinary Group :
Keanter Stoke Charity Road Kings Worthy
Winchester Hants SO23 7LS
Phone:    01962-844316
Website:    www.zavg.uk

Dr. Stephen Smith
Great Western Exotics    
10-14 Country Park Estate
Swindon Wilts SN1 2NR
Phone:    
Website:    www.gwreferrals.co.uk

Dr. Mark Taylor

Feldon Veterinary Centre    
1 Guy StreetLeamington Spa Warwickshire CV32 4RX
Phone:    01926 423161
Website:

  
Dr. Michelle Ward
Hospital for Small Animals University of Edinburgh    
Easter Bush Vet Centre
    Roslin Midlothian EH25 9RG
Phone:    44131-6507650
Website:
  
Dr. Nathalie Wissink Argilaga
Scott Veterinary Clinic    
405 Goldington Road
 Bedford Bedfordshire, England MK41 0DS
Phone:    +441234261622


Keep me posted...and good luck!!


Sandra

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks, Sandra, (sorry for calling you sarah in my last question, don't know where that came from, old age probably).
Unfortunatley all the vets on the list are many miles away, so I'll have to do as you suggest and ring some of them to see if there is anyone closer that they know of that they can reccomend,at least with your help I know now that I've got to get our pet onto different medication.
I'll do as you suggest and give him the Noroclav for the time being.
Again Thank You ever so much you've been a great help.
I'll let you know how we get on.
Lynn.  

Answer
Hi Lynn

I am so sorry those Vets are so far out for you. Its sad there are not enough exotic vets for our rats. It is just as bad in the US too. There are some states here that don't even have any at all. Luckily, some vets do take a special interest in rats and other pocket pets and do study up extra on their care, but they are also hard to find. Hopefully if you call around on Monday to the Vets on the list they may be able to advise you on where to go that is closer to you.

Wish I could help more in that area.  

Good luck and let me know if you need any further help!

Sandra