What is a

Question
QUESTION: I went to a PETCO near me to look at the ratties they had for sale, and the two cages with the rats had tags reading "small" and "medium" on them. The tags both said the same thing for full-grown size, but were priced differently and one set of rats looked slightly smaller than the other. They also appeared to be (possibly) dumbo-eared, although not marked as such. How does a dumbo rat look when it is young? do you have a comparison picture of a regular rat vs. dumbo eared? I want a dumbo rat, but I'm not sure if it's possible to tell at a young age if they're dumbo or not. Also, any insights on small vs medium? I don't think there's a difference, just that one set was bigger.

Thanks!
Caroline


Dumbo and standard ear   ANSWER: Small and medium are used mostly to describe the body size so snake owners will know what size rat they are buying for their snake to eat. :(

As for dumbo rats, you can tell a dumbo pretty much the day they are born. Their ears are on the side of their heads and the standard eared rat have ears that protrude from the top of their head.

Check out my website, the ABOUT ME AND MY RATS page.  I have a mixture of both dumbo and standard eared rats featured. They are my rats that have since passed. You will see photos of my rats that recently passed. Santana is a black rat with one eye and has standard (regular) ears.  The other photos of my most recently passed rats are dumbo rats. Smudge and Bo were dumbos.  Other dumbos were patches and Shadow and below that photo is a photo of my wild rat, Holly, who had the most erect standard top ears you ever saw!  The logo for Carolina Blue rattery features a dumbo rat too.
Here is the URL to that page.  

http://www.freewebs.com/crittercity/aboutmeandmyratstoo.htm

Also, I found a picture on PHOTO BUCKET in the shared photo section that has a mix of dumbo and standard eared rats. Its attached to this message. See if you can tell the difference.


As far as personality goes, there is no difference at all between the two. Ear placement has no influence on how socialized a rat is.  However, chances that a dumbo was bred by a decent breeder is high since standard rats are more common.  On the other hand, the dumbo may be inbred if the breeder is not properly breeding and instead is mating sister to brother, etc..

Are these your first rats?

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Feeder rats? >:O i had a bad feeling that was the case... Anyway, yes, these will be my first rats and I'll need to get them from a store because there are no breeders nearby (in Indianapolis). Thanks for the information about the dumbos though, It'll come in handy.

Also, I bought some lab blocks for the rats to eat. It is Kaytee Forti-diet prohealth for mouse, rat, and hamster. The bag recommends feeding only 2-3 blocks a day, but is that per rat? Should i have two food bowls (one for each) and should i mix the blocks with a grain or some oats?
I know the wet foods you should give, but can i give them only lab blocks as a main food (excluding treats, wet food, etc)?

Similarly, my cage is a PETCO rat manor with two shelves and a middle floor (of about .5 cm square wire mesh). Should i get something like needlepoint canvas to cover it so i can prevent bumblefoot? Also, you only put bedding in the bottom pan, right? Should i provide nest bedding like paper towels or fabric shreds or something, too?

PS: I am probably going to get my rats (both male) from either PETCO or PetsMart. I've heard that PETCO doesn't treat their animals very well, but I think the PETCO rats are a little younger than the PetsMart ones...
What would you recommend? (I don't know if the PETCO rumor would apply to the store i visited, it is quite new and they seem to be treated well)

Thanks!
Caroline

ANSWER:    

For starters, please look over my website, Critter City.  I started it back in 2004 with new rat owners in mind to guide them through everything from proper diet to health related issues.  I continued to update my site and keep information as current as I can to help keep people as educated as possible when it comes to caring for their pet rat.  Proper care of course ensures the longevity of the rat.  It was more common just 10 years ago to say that pet rats lived to be around 2 years old. However, more and more rat owners are turning to the internet for advice and information on how to properly care for their pet rat and some are even going further by doing research BEFORE buying their rats like y you are doing, and preparing ahead of time keeps the new rat owner from having to wing it and learn from their mistakes. I am more than happy to be a mentor to all new rat owners and happy to be able to make the pet rats life a longer and happier one as they are know starting to live past 2 years old, with the average age changing from 2 to closer to 3 years old with proper care. Some of my rats pass 3 years of age and several have made it close to 4 years old.  I wish we could keep going but sadly due to the rats fast metabolic rate, we have to accept that they really are not meant to live to be older like our pet dogs and cats. I only wish.....

Now about the things you asked me.  I would go for the pet store that does not sell feeder rats. Petsmart is supposed to be one of those stores that sell rats as pets ONLY and as far as I know, they keep the two sexes apart, unlike the feeder rats who are usually mixed in with each other, sending many female rats home pregnant.  Its very hard if not impossible to tell if the rat is pregnant until closer to their due date and many people that buy females that were in the feeder bin end up with a litter of new ratlets after a week or so.  Rats start to reproduce as early as 5 weeks of age.  Some pet stores also have a policy that if the rat gets sick within 14 days of purchase you can return it and they will get it better for you and keep it till its done with treatment. I always warn people to NOT do this as most of these places do not use vets but instead, keep them in the back and medicate them on their own.  I say once you walk out of that store with your rat, its your pet and your responsibility since you cant really trust them to do the right thing. This doesnt apply to every pet store but the horror stories are long and sad.

Next, the food. If you kept the receipt, I would return the rat food you just bought. Its too high in protein (protein should not exceed 15%) but even more so, the ingredients are unacceptable as adequate food for your rats.

We always advise to steer clear of hard corn or crushed corn etc..., esp if it is the very first ingredient in the pellets.  If its listed third, or even second, thats ok, but not first. This means the corn is the main ingredient in the pellet and the rest just follows in small amounts.  

Here is a good example or two:
Forti diet: it lists ground yellow corn as the first ingredient.  The other ingredients in it are even worse, from ground peanuts to corn gluten meal to animal fat and alfalfa meal. Rats CANNOT digest alfala and it can cause disturbances in the digestive tract later in life. The corn alone, esp the dried corn, contains a fungus that is not good for rats and could contribute to cancer as well.  

Kaytee rat blocks are 21% protein and have the same unwanted ingredients as the above Forti diet.


As for foods rats should NOT eat? I have a list, including the juice and also the rinds from oranges that male rats should not eat due to cancer causing d-limonene on my website.  Check it out here for info on diets etc...

http://www.freewebs.com/crittercity/ratsandahealthydiet.htm

As for what to buy?  Well now its confusing but here goes.  Mazuri makes a decent pellet but its high in protein, even higher than kaytee. However, this wont be the only thing they eat since it is advised to make the homemade mix on my site and offer vegetables daily with some fruits and meats such as white chicken meat, baked, and cooked beef livers, maybe a few times a month as a fancy treat.  Sometimes I make them a scrambled egg!  LOL!  AVOID PEANUT BUTTER as this can choke them if it clogs their throats and remember, rats cant vomit so this really causes some serious problems.

Harlan Teklad offers a perfect rodent pellet and my favorite for rats over 4 months of age is Regal rat by Oxbow.  Again, this can be fed to them at all times. Rats do NOT over eat. If you dont feed them enough they will begin to hoard food and although this is something they do sometimes anyhow, you dont want them to feel they wont be getting food as much as they need so they hide it when they get it. This will lead to mistrust and something you do NOT want to happen.

I can sit here and go on and on but all of this info and much much more is on my Critter City site.   One important page to read is GETTING STARTED.  It will tell you how to make a safe play area for your rats to play in safely and how to set up their cage to make them comfy.  You asked about giving them something to nest with and the answer is yes, I give mine white paper towels to shred up.  They need a little house to hide in and sleep in and giving them fresh clean paper towels daily is best.  

Anyhow, check out my website for all the info you need for setting up a house for the rats. I use needlepoint canvas over my wire floors to protect their feet from getting stuck in bars etc....but wire floors do not cause bumblefoot as once thought. Rats living on flat surfaces are getting it also.  The reason for it is because of a rat, often a chubbier rat, has a tiny cut on his or her foot that we dont see.  They stand in soiled areas and bacteria may enter. The pressure from the weight of the rat also causes this, think.....hmmm....think BED SORE or PRESSURE SORE and you have bumblefot.  Keeping it as clean as you can (their walking area etc....) are ways to prevent it but some rats are prone to it as it can be genetic as well.

So here is the URL to my site. Please let me know what you think and if you need more help, just ask away!!

http://www.freewebs.com/crittercity/


One last thing:  VETS!  Is important to have a vet even before you have rats since a good exotic vet is hard to find.  Read my page on vets so you can understand the difference between regular vets that see exotics as a special interest and a vet that is a certified avian/exotic  vet.

Here is what I have in your area:

Dr. Tara Gunn
Avian and Exotic Veterinary Clinic    
9330 Waldemar Road
Indianapolis IN 46268
Phone:    317-879-8633
Website:www.birddr.com


As for breeders, I can locate several but you may need to drive an hour, sometimes they meet you half way.   I am sure in a big city like yours there are breeders around that you may not know about if you would like me to search for you.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I have fully explored your crittercity site, and found it helpful. My dad says it's not worth it to make a food mix, though, so I will probably return the food and get a different type.

As for pet stores selling feeder rats, would it make a difference if they were males? (I probably won't want to buy from a store selling feeder rats at all, but still) Also, I'm fairly certain that PetSmart sells pet rodents only, so I might buy from there. The PetSmarts are also divided by gender, the one near us is an all-male store.

My parents aren't really willing to drive much to get a rat, so I'm not sure about getting one from a breeder. However, we live in Zionsville (right near Carmel and Indianapolis) and I'm pretty sure that there are no breeders nearby (If you find one, though, it might be helpful!).

Speaking of breeders, I have read about inbreeding and outbreeding, and a book i saw said that most rats from pet stores are outbred while breeder rats are inbred, therefore a little more genetically diverse. Wouldn't that make them a little hardier/less succeptible to certain traits associated with inbreeding?

I bought some Carefresh bedding that claimed to be pine and cedar-free, so I believe it's the best choice.

Also, as I said earlier, the rats at PETCO looked smaller than the rats at PetsMart, do you think they may have been younger?

If I do buy my rats from PetsMart, should I only buy if it is a pair housed in the same cage? I believe you told me in a past question that if i buy from seperate cages, they still have to be quarantined...

The rats I've seen at PetsMart didn't appear related, however. If they are not littermates but have been housed together in the store, is there still a bigger chance of hostility toward eachother?

The rats at PETCO (that were probably feeders) DID look related...would littermates get along a little better?

I also wanted to know: rats do or do not need a mineral or salt block?
I'm pretty sure that too much salt is bad for them, but are mineral blocks okay?

Thanks for being such great help!

Caroline (Age 13)


Answer
As for pet stores selling feeder rats, would it make a difference if they were males? (I probably won't want to buy from a store selling feeder rats at all, but still) Also, I'm fairly certain that PetSmart sells pet rodents only, so I might buy from there. The PetSmarts are also divided by gender, the one near us is an all-male store.

ANSWER:
I would ONLY buy males no matter where you get them from. Females, unless spayed at an early age, are very very prone to mammary tumors sometime after menopause.  I prefer  males for a few reasons but mainly because they grow much larger and tend to be more relaxed as they age and are more happy to lay on your lap for hours when they are older. Females dont usually like to sit still for long.

My parents aren't really willing to drive much to get a rat, so I'm not sure about getting one from a breeder. However, we live in Zionsville (right near Carmel and Indianapolis) and I'm pretty sure that there are no breeders nearby (If you find one, though, it might be helpful!).

Speaking of breeders, I have read about inbreeding and outbreeding, and a book i saw said that most rats from pet stores are outbred while breeder rats are inbred, therefore a little more genetically diverse. Wouldn't that make them a little hardier/less succeptible to certain traits associated with inbreeding?

ANSWER:
Not really true.  A good breeder does not mate rats that are related. What they DO do however, is make sure they have a history of the rats that they use for breeding such as all of their relatives just to make sure they are not inbred.  Well bred rats have less of a chance of having congenital defects and they are usually much more social since they are handled from the first few days of life.  Many store rats are terrified of people and it takes a bit of patience to get them used to their new owner which is why I have a page dedicated on how to tame a scared or biting rat.

I bought some Carefresh bedding that claimed to be pine and cedar-free, so I believe it's the best choice.   
ANSWER:  Yes its safe. Some people like it, some say its a bit dusty. I myself dont like it alot. I use yesterdays news but I also use a litter box rather than spreading it in the entire bottom pan of the cage.  You can buy a cat litter box, a small one, and keep the litter in there. When they poop elsewhere, put the poops in the litter box and eventually they get the idea.  it takes some time though, esp to get them to urinate in it, but they do use it by the time they are adults.

Also, as I said earlier, the rats at PETCO looked smaller than the rats at PetsMart, do you think they may have been younger?

ANSWER: Maybe, but it may only be a month or so.  Did you see the page on my site, WATCH MY BABIES GROW?  If not, check it out.  See how fast they grew from the time I brought them home until they were a few weeks old.  They are around 12 weeks old now and look like horses compared to what they did when I brought them home at 4 and a half weeks old.

If I do buy my rats from PetsMart, should I only buy if it is a pair housed in the same cage? I believe you told me in a past question that if i buy from separate cages, they still have to be quarantined...
ANSWER:
Buy them from the same tank, its best that way since they know each other.

The rats I've seen at PetsMart didn't appear related, however. If they are not littermates but have been housed together in the store, is there still a bigger chance of hostility toward eachother?

ANSWER:
Even if they are not related, they know each other so they will get along fine. My boys are not all related.  The blue one, Pepsi, is brothers to the Dove one, Jackson, and Ben, the black one, is from another litter. In fact, they just got together a few days before I adopted them from the breeder so Ben was a newcomer and they all sleep in a pile and love each other, despite the constant chasing, wrestling and boxing they do, which is normal and all done in fun!

The rats at PETCO (that were probably feeders) DID look related...would littermates get along a little better?
ANswer
Like I said above, as long as they are in the same tank it doesnt matter since they know each other.  You can even buy one now and a month from now get another one and introduce them and they usually get along, but its a bit of a pain and better just to get them as a pair.

I also wanted to know: rats do or do not need a mineral or salt block?
I'm pretty sure that too much salt is bad for them, but are mineral blocks okay?

No, they should not and do not need either the salt or mineral blocks. If you feed them a well balanced diet they will get all they need from their foodd.

Remember, no matter what, do not use the seed mix and always keep food down for them. Even if you buy a box of rice chex, cheerios and some rodent blocks or pellets, keep them down at all times. Rats dont over eat as I said before.  Give them the rodent pellets and when they are low, add more.   Try to find MAZURI rat blocks. Thats the best you can buy from these pet stores unless your lucky enough to find REgal rat by oxbow for rats.  They sell oxbow products at petsmart but not the rat food, unfortunately.

I am impressed your just 13 and doing all of your research NOW which is more than I can say for many adult rat owners.  Your a good smart girl and will be a terrific rat owner.  Please let me know soon as you get them.  Also, did you see the idea on how to make a playpen out of cardboard? I bet your dad would be able to help make a great one that can fold up when not using it so you can sit in it with the new boys and play.

Oh and by the way, if you do find a breeder, you will have a better chance at getting baby babies....like mine were.  They are so cute at that age, but fast and slippery as heck!

Just for kicks, check out what I found for you as far as breeders go. Maybe if you tell mom and dad they are healthier than petstore rats which means less vet bills, they may consider the short drive.  Heck, take a Sunday drive, get some Ice cream and buy some ratties:)

This breeder in about an hour from your city:

http://www.tmcuriouscritters.com/


BTW, my niece is about a year older than you.  She has a pierced lip and has purple streaks in her hair!