Follow up to Cyst On Rat, Surgery Advice?

Question

Rileys lump   QUESTION: Hi Sandra!

I have some small bad news, but overall good news (I think!)

First of all though, thank you for finding me an address for a vet that is in my area and is certified for exotics. The place you suggested is about 40 mins from my home and I know the area well! :-)

Let me fill you in on what's happened. This past week I have been watching the lump (while waiting for my pay to come so that I could set up an appointment! Money is tight and I had to save first to make sure I would be able to pay for it). I had been holding a warm compress over the lump on occasion and it eventually turned into a dark scab. Around the same time the lump seemed to get a bit SMALLER and flatter, which made me think it was in fact an abscess and had maybe partially drained on it's own.  I decided to leave it alone and not try to drain it myself with a needle just in case it was a tumor though.  

I got my pay on the 3rd and was going to call to make an appointment on Monday, but I wanted to send you a photo first just to show you the scabby area. JUST NOW I went and got Riley and took him out to get a photo and when I did I BARELY touched the area to see if it had gotten bigger or smaller and LOTS OF YELLOW GREEN YOGURTY GUNK came out! Gross (and stinky!), but good right??? LOL

I had read your instructions on cleaning an abscess and also found other sites as well so even though I wasn't totally prepared, I knew to make up some saline solution using distilled water and salt and I squeezed all the gunk out. A little bit of blood came out too at the end but not too bad. Riley was VERY wiggly!! (I don't think I could have used a needle on him!)  I then cleaned it out with the saline solution and put on a tiny bit of neosporin (was that okay?)

The lump is completely gone. There is a scab and that's it. A little irritated but definitly flat. This means no tumor right?! I am going to try to attach an "after" photo.

Question. At this point I know I need to keep the area clean and make sure the pus is all gone. Do I need to actually PICK the scab so that I can get the solution in there? Or just leave it alone? I left it alone but squeezed to make sure everything was out. Also I am assuming the cage should be kept extra clean?

Right now Riley is happily bathing on my shoulder while I type! He seems a tad bit skinner, BUT I think its just because finding the lump made me realize how precious my time with him is, and he has been out of his cage with me getting TONS of exercise these last few weeks!

Do you think it would be a good idea to still take him to the vet to be checked out? Or maybe wait a week or so and if it does not heal, then take him? I'll do whatever you suggest! (I've got the money now!) I did call another vet before I got the address you suggested. It was Dr. Gloria Goodman in Aston, PA. Do you know anything about that doctor? The price of the exam was good, and it's about the same distance from me but it seems like the place you suggested is one of the best around me so I think that is where I would go.

I am very UNHAPPY at the thought of that first vet immediately telling me I must put Riley through $400 surgery to have this removed and risking his life when there is a good chance it just needed to be drained. I think I might write a letter to them. I doubt it would do anything (a refund would be nice but doubtful!) They are in for it though, you can see I tend to write A LOT! ha)

I am however, SO thankful for your help and advice so far! You have NO idea how much of a comfort and help you have been! I really really really appreciate everything!!!  If you accept donations (maybe to help pay for your website to stay up and running?) please let me know where to send it to. I don't have much but I would love to give you a little as a thanx. You're THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!

ANSWER: Wheres the bad news? I dont see any bad news at all!! In fact, its good news.
If it has shrunk down, that is absolutely the best news ever.  

I just did not feel too good about that other vet just jumping the gun and wanting the surgery like that, when it really did seem like an abscess, even from just a photo.

I would continue to put saline on it. It will seep under the scab, but do me a favor: in another day or two, gently palpate around the area to see if there are any lumps under the old abscess. Do you feel anything at all?  I just want to be sure there is no internal tumor that may have become infected.  I doubt it, but I need you to be my hands for me and also my eyes since I cannot do this obviously, from my beat up but comfy computer chair:)

Also, the antibiotic ointment is fine to use. I suggest after applying the saline, rub on the  ointment too and repeat two or three times a day.

Do you need a vet?  Honestly? I hate to tell you NOT to go, but hate to have you waste money for nothing.  My rats have had these abscesses in the same place and as long as there was not a lump of any kind under it, and I mean inside the body, not under the skin, I never went to the vet because it was simply an abscess and not an abscessed tumor.  That said, the choice is yours. If you do not feel any mass under the abscess after its healed better (there may be swelling yet so I would not try to palpate for a mass for a few days) I would save my money. Set some aside for another time.  If you feel a mass after the wound has healed totally and is almost gone or totally gone, I would go to the Vets. The vet you found is an avian/exotic vet and is fine to see or you can go to the place I suggested. Either one is fine.

Oh also, do you mind if I use the photos for a case study on my Critter city site?  I would like to use the photos of the before and after and also would like a photo of him in general, just looking all rattie cute and stuff:)   
As for donations, I would rather see you spend your money on the vet bill in needed, or a new hammock or cuddle cup bed. But thanks for offering anyhow. That is very sweet. My reward for doing this, between allepxerts and maintaining Critter City is to see rat owners learn more about proper rat care and taking proper care of them. The first step is writing to me either here or from Critter City, and the next step is learning more about their care and over all well being. Seeing that our rats are living longer than they did even 10 years ago due to rat owners doing more research on proper care is the greatest reward ever!



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: HI! I've got an update and some new questions! Are you sick of me yet? LOL

You're right, overall it is GREAT news. The only bad news was that I wasn't prepared for it so I had to make my own solution and carry him around for a bit while getting everything made.

Well first of all, I've been cleaning the area every day. About 16 hours after it initially burst it started filling up again a bit. Not completely but a little, so I knew I was going to have to squeeze more gunk out. It came out easy and there was MUCH less of it. My boyfriend was helping me and he screamed "that is the most disgusting smell EVER!". I guess I am lucky my allergies have been so bad lately and I've been stuffed up! lol

As I was squeezing the second time, the scab literally just fell off!! (It sounds like a lie because I just asked you whether I should pick it or not but it REALLY did just fall off when I squeezed!!!) It worked out though because I didn't have to force it, but once it was gone I was able to really clean out the area, get a look inside and took a picture. Plus I was able to get the neosporin down in the area really good. I tried squeezing one more time after that but there has been no more pus left in it. I have still been cleaning with the saline solution and neosporin just not squeezing. I hate to jump the gun but it looks like it will heal nicely and I do not feel anything else underneath it. I can sort of tell just  from touching it when I put the neosporin on but  I will inspect better once it has healed completely! It is getting smaller very fast!!!

More good news. I saw you recommend Dr. Esteban Baeza to someone else and I found his office is approx 20 min from my house! So if a vet DOES end up being needed, I have THREE options! :-)

Yes of COURSE u can use my photos! I will send u the one from the other day when the scab came off and then some of him just being cute and then one when it is hopefully all gone. How can I attach multiple images?

Now this is where things take a turn lol I WILL be using that money for new toys and a hammock afterall because I've figured out that they have mites!

Riley lives with his brother Donovan. A few months back I noticed that Donovan started getting scabs and scratches on his back and like everyone else I thought it was because Riley was fighting with him. Donovan is the submissive one. At the time I also remember Donovan starting to not want me to hold him and try to get away when he NEVER did that before. He would squeak a LOT and I couldn't figure out why.. He has been doing that more and more ever since! I just thought he was scared because Riley was scratching him or biting him.

But after comparing to pics on your site, I found that they looked like mite or lice irritation and I looked and saw specks which for sure seem like mites. This  probably  explains Donovan's behavior! I think it's irritating his skin and it might hurt or bother him when I touch the area so he doesn't want to be held. (I also think that this might explain WHY Riley got the cyst/asbcess in the first place! Scratching!)

A friend of mine that works at the pet store that I work at is really good with rats and he always told me to check for mites and to freeze my bedding but I did slack lately when it came to the bedding. I had him check for mites when I found the lump and he said he didn't see any but they are tiny so he may have missed them. I called him to fill him in earlier.  He says that it IS mites but that they should be bigger by now and I should be able to see legs. He said they must  have JUST caught them because of the size and that the mites are still babies. After reading your info though it doesn't seem he is accurate on that part!

The specks are very very very small and if you look REAL close u can see them moving every so slightly.  Donovan has them worse than Riley but I can cleary see little specks when I seperate the fur and I can see the movement. They look like specks of pepper but they look reddish brown. I believe u said these are tropical mites? I have noticed that the last few weeks I have been itchy  too and the last few days sometimes it feels unbearable! I think its because I've been spending so much more time with them. Looking back I realize I itch A LOT right after holding them but it goes away. This seems to fit the description because u said they CAN get on humans, but won't stay long.

ANYWAY he said to put down newspaper and use a spray from the bird aisle but I have already checked and found that u recommend revolution. Cat strength (5-15 lb) blue vial is okay right? (It says on one page that kitten or adult is fine but then somewhere else I saw u say to get the kitten mauve one). I am gonna buy a three pack and use one now, one in a month and have an extra. Can I get a syringe from the drug store?  How can I weigh them to know the dosage to use? He did say to throw away the wood house so I will. He also said it could pass to the bunny who is in the same room. Should I treat her with revolution too? What about cats/dogs? My dog is getting advantix but my cats do not have flea/tick etc control. Do they need to be treated with revolution immediatly too? They don't really have access to the room the rats/bunny are in. And finally, what if they had them this WHOLE time.. Will that have had a negative impact on their overall health and life expectancy?

I did freeze some bedding and am going to call the vet for the revolution tomorrow. Just making sure I am prepared and get the right number of tubes to treat all the pets that need it.

I THINK that's it for now..I am learning SOOO much! LOL What would I do without your help?!

ANSWER:

No of course I am not sick of you! I like it that your wanting to learn as much as you can learn about caring for your rats.

A few things.....do NOT use spray on them or in the cage. No spray is good for rats, ever, not even if its for birds. Birds do not get the same mites the rats get, they are species specific, which is why your bunny is safe from them as well...oh, and your other pets are also exempt from getting these mites

As for the revolution, you can use the blue box for kittens as long as it is the same  strength as the mauve box. The vials are a big larger since when using on kittens, your supposed to use the entire vial, not measure little drops of it out.  

As for photos, send them to me directly at Sandyscrittercity@yahoo.com

If I missed something let me know. Its near midnight and I am seeing double!  LOL

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------


Riley2   QUESTION: UPDATE. (No questions.)

The mites are GONE! :-) There were sooo many of them but one treatment of the revolution killed them all just like you said!!!

I got the Revolution mauve for kittens for $15 a vial. I bought one for now and one for next month. I was able to weigh them using a food scale and Riley weighs 1 lb 4 ounces and Donovan weights 1 lb 8 ounces. Based on your dosage instructions on Critter City I figured Donovan should get about .12ml and Riley a tad bit over .10ml. The vial is .25 so they ended up getting approx half a vial each.

I got a syringe/needle at the drug store, but at first he didn't want to give it to me! (He made me promise I wasn't using it for anything "BAD" LOL). I said "I promise I just need the needle to get the liquid OUT of the tube! That's it!"

I applied it less than 24 hours ago and already their fur feels softer and the scabs are healing and the redness is going away! 90% of the specks are gone and the ones I find are not moving anymore. I told my friend from the store what you said about not using the bird spray too and told him about the revolution so from now on he can recommend it to customers and use it on his rats at home.

And as for Riley the wound where the lump was has almost totally healed. Just a teeny tiny scab left over and I still can't feel anything underneath. (I hope it stays that way! lol)

I sent you a few pics to your email address. I'm also attaching a pic here to show how he looks currently. You can see other scratches in the area right near where the abscess was. This makes me even more certain that he probably scratched himself because of the mites, then maybe it got infected.

I am soooooo excited that I wrote to you and found your website!! I won't be surprised if I spend more and more time learning about them now. When I had a problem with my goldfish I joined a forum and am now part of the moderating team there because I got so involved with wanting to learn and help others!

Thanks again SOOO SOOO MUCH!!!

Answer
I love happy endings!!!!!!!  keep up the good work and remember, you can find alot of common ailments right on my critter city site. I am working on updating it even more so I can offer even more accurate info so keep checking back.  I will let you know when I am done getting your rat up there as a super star survivor!  :)