My rat stretches alot and just sits when others bite his ears

Question
QUESTION: Hello Sandra! I'm excited to find this site! Thanks for being here.
Maybe this is nothing, but i'll tell you everything from the beginning so you can get a good idea if there is a problem.
I have four neutered rats. They bed on Yesterday's News paper pellets and Aspen shavings, and they eat Oxbow Regal Rat and fresh foods, and only get distilled water. They  go on Baytril and Doxycycline mixed in baby soy milk or mashed baby foods when they get lung infections. They get outside-cage time, but don't roam the floors.
Sky's an extremely laid-back rat. I can pick him up any way and he doesn't move. He trusts me so much, when he's on my shoulder, he doesn't try to hold on cuz he knows i'll catch him. He just flops all over the place.
He's an American Blue Dumbo. He is the oldest (will be 2 years in a few months) and was neutered the first, at a few months old. He was given the old method of injection for his surgery, and a cut on each of his testicles. A couple weeks later i noticed what still felt like one testicle left. The vet checked it out and said it was a blood cloth and would go away. It shrank a bit but is still there. I notice the rats stretch alot after their neuters, i guess cuz of the discomfort, but Sky still does. I don't THINK he's in pain. But when i pet and scratch him, he loves it around his head and shoulders, but when i scratch his sides and near his hips, he whips his head around like it bothers him, and i stop. He's my favorite boy and i spend lots of time with him, and spoil him. He loves being with me. But he's never been bouncy or hyper, just kinda subdued and lethargic looking. But i don't know if he's just ragdoll-like. I've always felt he was content. But maybe i'm just being paranoid. I just want to make sure he has as comfortable a life as possible.
He and Nos grew up together and always got along. Then i got  two new rats, Whisper and Pocket, and after a few weeks quarantine, put them with the first two. Whisper and Nos fought often, so i got Nos neutered. But Whisper kept picking on them all, especially Sky, so i got Whisper neutered. But he still causes fights, and he bites Sky's ears all the time. They'll just be sitting next to each other, and Whisper slowly brings his mouth to Sky's ear, Sky squints, Whisper bites, and Sky squeaks and pulls away. And sometimes just standing in the cage, Whisper'll really try to reach for Sky's ear. He's got little scabs on them. And Sky's got scabs on his back too. But i've recently guessed those might be due to allergies, so i'm trying to remove a few things... So then i thought it might be Pocket's smell causing Whisper to be so dominant, so i got Pocket neutered. There's still no change in Whisper's behavior. He still tries to flip Nos and Sky on their backs. There is a second cage attached by a tunnel that only Whisper doesn't know how to use. But Sky still hangs out in the main cage. Does he not mind Whisper's annoying bites, or should i separate them two and two?
I know there is no real problem here, but do you see anything abnormal in all that?
Do you think his stretching is from discomfort? What would it be? Or might he just be lazy and laid-back. And that hard tissue left from his surgery?
And why would Whisper be picking on him so much? Should i seperate them?
Sorry this is so long and complicated. I just want them to be happy.
Thank you so much for your time.

ANSWER:  "They bed on Yesterday's News paper pellets and Aspen shavings, and they eat Oxbow Regal Rat and fresh foods, and only get distilled water. They  go on Baytril and Doxycycline mixed in baby soy milk or mashed baby foods when they get lung infections. They get outside-cage time, but don't roam the floors."
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I am totally and absolutely excited to find someone that is doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing with their rats:
Proper bedding and food and medications for ordinary myco flare ups!
Yeah! This makes my job on here alot easier! Kudos to you! :)


I am not sure what you mean by the "old method of injection for surgery" with cuts on each testicle.  There are two methods we use, which is neutering through the scrotum or else neutering through the abdomen.  Scrotal neuters are newer than abdominal neuters, but they are both older techniques really. Scrotal neuters are a bit more painful to recover from although recovery is faster. There is alot of cramping afterwards and also a higher chance of  a testicular abscess forming.
Since he was neutered nearly 2 years ago, I doubt it was a hematoma or an abscess. If anything, it could have been a seroma which is the collection of fluid in the surgical site. Again though, it would absorb eventually in a few weeks.  If anything, there may be scar tissue left which is common.
As for him being touchy in that area, many rats have certain areas they dont like you to mess with. Some of my rats HATE ear scritches if you can believe that!?! Others hate their feet touched and more than anything, I find most rats hate you touching them from behind in their rear end and genital area. I have rats that lay belly up and let me pet their fat tummies and others that freak and struggle and scream as if your cutting their feet off!!

As for the stretching, again, this can be something he likes to do after a long slumber and at this age, he may be getting stiffer in the joints. Males are prone to degenerative changes which occur right around this age too so he may feel achey and is stretching for that reason.

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"He and Nos grew up together and always got along. Then i got  two new rats, Whisper and Pocket, and after a few weeks quarantine, put them with the first two."
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Again,your scoring points left and right. I can count on my hands how many people quarantine new rats from existing rats. Good job at doing your homework :)

Next I want to ask, how long has it been since Whisper was altered?
There is a difference between aggression and simple dominance and/or play fighting and wrestling. It doesnt always mean the rat is aggressive but some rats are more ornery than others. He sounds like he has a strong need to dominate and be lead of the mischief and he also has a fetish for ears! LOL
Sky also doesnt seem to be scared of Whisper or he would avoid him.
Also, when was the latest rat neutered?

Your right to say its not really an issue and yes, acting this way is totally normal.  I usually say not to let more than 3 intact males in one cage but your boys are all altered now so true aggression issues should not be a factor. Its simply boys being boys, with one boy being the most annoying out of the bunch: the ear nibbler!!

I would keep them all together. Normally do they cuddle and sleep together? Does one go off and sleep alone at all or do they usually end up together?

Sorry for asking so many things but this can also make me understand a little better about the boys.

regards

Sandra












---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Wow thank you so much! You are awesome!! I can't believe there is a site like this with actual experts who actually take the time to answer all these questions right. I'm so thrilled!
By injection method, i meant as anesthetic, instead of gas(which i read is much safer). And they did the neuter through the scrotum, not the abdomen. (The doctor changed his methods now, which i'm really glad of). But Sky has always stretched alot, when i'm playing with him, petting him, especially when i let him off of my hand, he'll stretch as he gets off, anytime. Deep down i'm expecting him to end up with hindleg paralisis when older. But maybe he just likes stretching.
Whisper was neutered several months ago, but Pocket only 3  weeks ago(but he gets along with everyone). Would his sent set Whisper off into dominance mode? (Whisper's also always been sorta nervous. I got him from a pet shop when he was around 4 months and neutered when around 8) He seems very annoying, always attacking the others, but it's true they all cuddle and sleep together. Maybe he's just one of these more aggressive rats i've read about. I'm just worried that Sky TOLERATES him, and i don't want it to break his spirit. But i'll keep them all together if you think it's best. Thank you so much for answering and for your patience!

ANSWER: Wow I didnt think there was a vet that would dare use injectable anesthesia on a rat. It is so dangerous and it cannot be controlled like gas can.  I usually recommend people that if that is the technique used, RUN not walk to the nearest exit.

I do have to say your rat is lucky to be alive. I am serious. It is so deadly to use that route, even on dogs and cats. The fact it is cheaper to use rather than using isoflurane or sevoflurane tells me that he didnt want to use the expensive method for your rat.
Maybe I am wrong, but I am really floored over this, which is why I didnt understand what you meant about injection....well I thought that is what you meant but hoped I misunderstood, which I didnt.  

Correct me if I am wrong by all means, I dont want to misjudge anyone since its not fair to do, so please set me straight if I am wrong about this. I dont mind being wrong :)

If you like this vet and are comfortable with him thats ok since I dont know the entire story nor do I know anything about him, but if you feel you would like another vet, one that can really relate to rats, let me know your zip code and the cities in your area and I would be happy to help you find something that has safer methods and your rats health and safety as his main priority.

Feel free to write me anytime!! I am always happy to help.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: No, you're right, i was a little confused at that vet. I didn't know as much about rats back then. I knew gas was safer, but not HOW dangerous injection was (thanks for letting me know, i am horrified at the thought that Sky might have died!) But he has changed to gas for my other 3 rats neutered there. They also come out of the anaesthetic ALOT quicker. Sky took nearly 4 hours to come out of it while i held him! I feel like such a bad mother now.
TO EVERYONE OUT THERE, do research on EVERYTHING about your dear little friends, they deserve it!
Sky also kicked alot and VERY hard while waking up from surgery. Maybe another clue to his mysterious stretching. He still acts like the day after a neuter. Anyway, about the vet, he's older and probably old fashioned in his methods. But i think he's trying to change a bit, like with the gas. Now, also, instead of making two cuts on the tip of the testicles, he makes one just behind the penis. Is that better or worst?? (sorry, i don't know all the medical terms) I've read that a scrotal neuter is way more painful and causes bloating, but also that in a abdominal neuter, the risk of an abscess is more dangerous since it's nearer the penis. I really don't know.
I wish i could give my rats the best doctor. There is another vet i know of who specializes in small animal with all the latest gadgets and technology, but he is extremely expensive, about four to five times more than my current one, and i really can't afford that. I know that doesn't sound right. They DO deserve the best. I don't really KNOW my vet, he's shy but he seems nice to the animals, and i'm hopeful that he's going to start using better methods. I don't think there are any other vets around. I live in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, with surrounding cities being Dartmouth, Sackville, Bedford. My postal code is B3M 3C5.
I don't know what to do. It's got me thinking...
Thank you so much for your help. And thank you for your commendation on my care (food, bedding...)! At least i'm happy to know i'm doing good with that, and that they have a pretty good home.
Thanx again, Joleen

Answer
Scrotal neuter causes the abscesses, but abdominal neuters take longer to heal.  

To tell you the truth, you dont have to neuter unless the boys are really aggressive. It doesnt add any extra time onto their life at all. The only thing it is for is to of course prevent pregnancy and to cure aggression.  I have only had two males neutered out of the dozens I have had and this was due to serious aggression. They would rip each other apart plus lunged at me and even the vet tech. Neutering them settled them down, stunted their growth but at least their fur stayed soft...oh and they dont leave urine puddles like the intact rats do. Or maybe you just dont like carpet runners....LOL...some people just do not like to look at "them"  LOL
I prefer males mainly because of how prone females are to mammary tumors and unless you spay them at a young age, the chance that they will develop these tumors is very very high.  However spaying is tricky and invasive and only a very experienced vet should do it.

Thats not right that the specialist is so expensive. I guess they want someone to pay for their high tech equipment. :(
My vet is $29 for an established patient and a bit more for new patients. He is for exotics only, no cats and dogs allowed. He used to do everything but he wanted to be able to provide the best small animal clinic around and invest the fundings to suit the needs of the smaller animals and it was too much to afford to meet the needs of both traditional animals and exotics too.  I like it this way though...he can focus better on the smaller mammals.

I will look for another vet for you just for the heck of it...but you are doing a top notch job with the rats !