Pet rats tumor leaking?

Question
QUESTION: Kiki, my loyal pet rat of 2.5 years has had a tumor on her right shoulder blade for 4 months now. When I discovered the tumor, I brought her to the vet and the vet advised me to not operate due to her age, but it could be done. When I touched the tumor, it could move around and at the time, she could too without it bothering her that much. Kiki loved jumping on things and climbing. She has such a wonderful and big personality. The tumor continued to grow and Kiki started to waddle uncomfortably. When I saw that she was frustrated with the situation, I went back to the vet a month later and requested to have it removed. The vet measured the tumor and it had grown twice in size. She said it was 1/3 of her body and it would be too risky due to the tumor's location and the anticipated blood loss during surgery. Kiki continues to be very loving and I made some adaptions to make her walking a little better and I continue to try to make the rest of her time here as comfortable as possible. My problem started yesterday. Yesterday afternoon I picked her up and played with her and everything was fine. I did notice a black looking scab mark on the back of the tumor. Nothing was coming out. Later that night, I went to go pick her up again and I felt something gooey. When I put her down, it looked like I had gooey orange spaghetti sauce on my fingers. It looked as if her skin was falling off! Today, her whole underside is covered in black now and maybe it's my imagination, but the tumor looks smaller. There's a rotting smell also developing and I don't know how to take care of her. Is her tumor leaking? What is coming out? Is there some sort of bath that could sanitize that area? Should I use a special bedding? What is going on with her? I don't know what to do to care for her. Please help.

ANSWER: Hi Christina

I am not sure what is up with these vets talking clients out of surgery because a rat is 2.5 years old.  We operate on rats that are 3 years old without incident. Regardless of age there is always a risk. If the tumor was removed earlier it would not be so vascular and risk of hitting major blood vessels would be nearly zero unlike now, once the tumor taps into the rats blood supply and becomes highly vascular. Even so, a good vet could  clamp off any bleeders and there would be minimal blood loss.  Maybe the vet doesnt have the proper size implements for a small mammal.  Is the vet a board certified exotic vet?

As for your rat....sounds as if the tumor has gone necrotic on her, with the skin rotting and turning black.  The odor is infection. WHat happened (without seeing her this is just an educated guess) is the tumor abscessed and what you are seeing is blood and pus and the odor is bacteria.

You need to wipe her down with hibicleanse or novalsan and apply antibiotic ointment to the area and she needs oral antibiotics before she ends up getting that into her blood stream and turning into sepsis.

Please read my website about mammary tumors and how they are very simple to deal with regardless of age. If the rat is otherwise healthy, it doesnt matter if the rat is 4 or 1...

http://www.freewebs.com/crittercity/allabouttumors.htm


I hope you can get this taken care of.  If you need more help feel free to write.

good luck!

Sandy

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Sandy,

As a follow up, I started washing Kiki with hibiclens and put Neosporin on the part that was open.. the next day I went to the vet and she had agreed with you saying the tumor had abscessed and it was the rotting tissue in the opening that was causing the odor. The vet put her on Amoxidrops and these past couple of days she was like her old self when she was younger. But today the odor is starting to creep back and she keeps scratching her ear to the point that it bleeds. She's also making these whimpering noises sometimes. The vet had recommended euthanasia if she stopped eating, but she's still doing that. Are these Amoxidrops working or is it making her worse? Is this the first sign of sepsis?

ANSWER: I am glad the vet agreed with me and put her on oral meds. However, she may either not be getting strong enough dose or the bacteria may be resistant to the antibioitic.  I myself prefer bactrim in cases of soft tissue infection and abscesses.  Perhaps the vet is willing to change the antibiotics.

I would for sure request a change to Tribrissen(trimthoprim sulfadiazine)also known as Bactrim. This drug is the best for fast          penetration into abscessed tissue and deep skin pyoderma.

How much of the amoxi drops is she getting and what is her weight, even a good guess will help me know if she is getting enough medication. Sometimes vets forget rats have a super fast metabolic rate (which unfortunately is why they have such a short life span) and their body burns through medication so its not a bad idea to dose slightly higher in many cases.
As for the whimpering noises...she may be frustrated due to itching and also she may be itchy from the abscess. It could make her itch all over.
The signs of sepsis would be very easy to recognize: She will be very very weak, to the point she wont want to even lift her head. She wont eat or drink or care about anything. She may have clear fluid come from her mouth (drooling) You will know when it happens (it shouldnt while she is on oral medication as long as she is not tolerant to it or the bacteria is not resistant to the antibiotic)
Of course if she would get to this point, it would be time to help her along to the rainbow bridge. :(

I would continue to rinse her with the hibicleanse and apply the ointment even though she is on oral meds. It wont hurt at all. Also apply some cortisone cream to her itchy spots. This may help a great deal. You can buy it over the counter, I believe it is 1% cortisone or hydrocortisone cream 1%. Its all they sell OTC so its either or.

Also I would call the vet and have her meds changed. She can call it right in to a regular pharmacy. Its human grade medication so a pharmacy can fill it no problem and the best part is its usually much cheaper (have her call walmart! :)



Which reminds me, although I hate to discuss it, be sure to ask about proper ways to euthanize rats. ALL RATS MUST be TOTALLY UNDER ANESTHESIA before getting a cardiac stick if this is the route the vet takes. Be sure to ask first and in fact if they do not allow you back there to be with her, I would suspect they are not doing a humane euthanasia. You dont have to be back there but let them think you do and you will know what their protocol is.  It is illegal to do a cardiac stick without first putting the rat under anesthesia and heavy  Sedation is NOT enough , the rat must be totally under anesthesia no matter what.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi there,

Thank you for answering my question in such a timely matter. I really appreciate it. :) Kiki currently gets 0.2ml of Amoxicillin three times daily and her current weight is 15 ounces. The vet did speak of changing her medication if I did not see any improvements, so I will contact her tomorrow. Is the dosage enough for her? Thank you for the heads up on the protocol for euthanizing rats in case it does come to that. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Answer
Lets see.....my math sux...but she is 15oz...thats almost 1lb..so yeah, she is getting the right dose.  AMoxi drops are .20ccs (or 0.2mls) per pound so she is getting the right dose needed.  However, the medication itself is a mild broad-spectrum antibiotic. She needs something stronger, like the bactrim.  I hope the vet does change it. I would feel better about it. At least you know you are exhausting all options and doing all you can for her.  Good luck and feel free to reach me anytime. You may need to ask a new question again if it tells you that you have had too many follow ups but thats ok.

hang in there!