scratching and bleeding

Question
QUESTION: Dear Sandra, i read reply you wrote:

There are several reasons why a rat can become itchy and develop sores from scratching.  It stems from fur mites to poor diet that is too high in protein or even something more simple such as dry skin.

Starting with the process of elimination (and I am going to ask you do to an exam for me, you can be my eyes and hands since I cannot examine him)

Sneezing daily when a rat first comes to a new home is fairly common because of all the new smells they take in and sometimes their excitement makes their histamine levels go up which in turn, sneezing starts. Once the stimuli is removed, the sneezing subsides. However, if the rat has been sneezing all the time, there may be a chance that there is something in the cage that is causing it which is why I am asking these few things now.

What type of bedding is he on and what kind of housing does he live in; cage or glass tank?   The answers to these two questions are very important.

Next, check his fur very carefully looking for very tiny mites that may move across the skin.  Carefully examine the fur and see if you notices any types of nits that may be attached to the fur. Does the coat seem dull? Does his fur seem as if it were singed with fire and broken, like really bad split ends?

Do you notice dry skin or patches of orange waxy substance on his skin?

Next I must ask about his diet. What kind of food does he eat daily?
A diet high in protein not only causes skin problems but it is also very bad for their kidneys and kidney disease will eventually set in as the rat ages.

Once we go over the answers to these questions I will be able to hopefully come up with some reasons for the rats skin problems and how to resolve it.

- - - - -

and it directly identifies several things my rat is experiencing but there were no answers as to what they mean.

My rat still sneezes almost everyday at least 2 to 3 times. At the moment he has biodegradable recycled bedding and he lives in a glass tank.

i hold him often and have never noticed any mites or bugs but im not sure i know what im looking for. his fur is coarse and feels singed, but he is a rex rat and i was told by the pet store thats how he is supposed to feel.

he does have orange waxy spots in his fur coat but largely on his tail. ive noticed it will flake off like a scab if it is picked at.

i feed him a mixture of store bought rat food (pellets, sunflower seeds, what looks like bird seed) as well as oats, carrots, cheeses, varieties of bread, raspberries, whip cream, apples, bananas, lettuce and anything else he might like.

he also bleeds from his nose at least once a week, and i am worried now because this is the first time he has scratched an area bald, and i now notice on his bedding (a cardboard tube i gave him and he shredded) that there are tiny blood spots all over it.

When i first got him i gave him a bath, and he had blood around his eyes, and the 2nd time i ever tried to bathe him, he seemed to have very tiny blood spots all over that just profuse from his pores.

Please help me. I feel that this is urgent
- Leesa


ANSWER: Hi


Your rat sneezes two or three times a day?  Is that all, or is it two or three times in a row off and on all the time?  Some sneezing is normal, and I do want to go over something with you first so I am clear on what is going on.

The "blood" you see. I am almost sure what you are seeing is not blood,but instead, it is porphyrin. This is discharge from the nose and eyes that is from an excretory gland located behind the rats eyes called the harderian gland. This gland is there to lubricate the rats nictating membrane, or rather, the rats third eyelid. Alot of folks do not realize rats have this, which is a translucent membrane that is used to keep  eyeballs moist in dry air and free of particles. This actually helps the rat no blink alot which can be a life saving thing in the wild. If the rat has to blink because of irritants getting in their eyes and there is a predator nearby and they are trying to sit very very still, blinking just once could call out to the predator the rats location and the rat is doomed, so you can say this membrane has a life saving purpose.  In humans, our nictating membrane is that pink blob in the corner of our eye :)  That said, the harderian gland produces a reddish brown secretion to keep the nictating membrane lubricated. When the rat is stressed, the harderian gland produces copious amounts of porphyrin and this is often natures signal to the rat owner that something is wrong. Since the novice rat keeper automatically assumes this is blood, they usually head for the vet, or off to seek outside information and advice, like your doing now, as to what is going on.  

That said, please go now to my website and see the photos of a rat with porphyrin around his eyes and another photo of my own rat, Bo, with porphryin staining around his nose. Do that if you dont mind, before reading further so you can see what I am talking about:


http://www.freewebs.com/crittercity/bloodynoseandeyes.htm

They also can smear this porphyrin around on their body and if they have white fur, they end up staining pinkish color from the porphyrin. They may get some on their paws too, often making it look like they have some kind of bloodied paws. Many vets that are not up to par on rat care actually do not know about porphyrin discharge and end up scaring the rat owner into thinking they have some terrible brain tumor that is causing bleeding in the brain and its coming out of the eyes and nose. I actually stopped someone from putting their rat to sleep last year when they wrote to me saying their vet said their rat was bleeding internally in his sinuses and needed to be put out of his misery. Once she read my site, compared the photos and realized it was porphyrin, she stormed into the vets office, handing him a print out of my webpage and told him to "read up" and that he better stop treating rats medically unless he educates himself properly. Of course he said not to listen to the "garbage" from the internet, but she took her rat to a vet that I suggested she see and it turns out the rat had an inner ear infection and was stressed beyond belief.  He was on the road to recovery in just a few days after treatment and to think...he would be dead right now  because of some vet that has no business seeing rats!

That said, I also want to talk about the tank he is in. Aquariums are not really good at all for rats. There is no circulation in there even if you have a screen lid. The glass walls insulate and keep the odors and air trapped inside. Even though your using acceptable litter/bedding, there is still no air movement to circulate well and the ammonia builds up even though you may clean the tank twice a week.  It also keeps the rat from doing what rats love to do most, which is climb.  I would look into getting him a nice roomy cage. He will love you for it and it is much more healthy for him and creates a more healthy environment.

Next, his coat. I have had both a rex and double rex rat. Usually the rex coat is wavy and because he is an intact male, he will feel coarse and not soft as you have noticed. He still should not have fur that seems like it was singed on the ends though, but its hard for us to understand each other over the internet what this may or may not look and feel like so I will just skip that part for now. The waxy orange spots are buck grease and is normal to find it on their body and even tail, esp with males. This comes from active hormones like testosterone, and this prompts the sebaceous glands to work in over drive, creating an orange waxy residue left on their skin and tail. You may want to work on removing it a little at a time so it doesn't lead to a skin infection because the skin cannot breathe if it gets too thick.  A super soft tooth brush or baby brush and some dawn dish soap (as per my readers swearing that it works:) and gently scrubbing a few times a week. I wouldn't try to remove it all at once as this may cause irritation and even sores.

Mites or lice: your rat would be itching all the time, have scabs all over. If he does have this, before pointing fingers at his diet, which I still need to cover with you, I would opt to treat him for ectoparasites.  Just call the vet and all you need to do is buy one vial of revolution, kitten strength. If he weighs 1lb, he will get .10ccs of the stuff which is just a tiny drop. To use it, you will need a syringe with a needle to draw the solution from the vial. Once you measure his proper dose (I need his weight to dose him properly, or a good guesstimate) Anyhow after drawing the proper amount of revolution, part his fur on the back of his neck, between shoulder blades, and squirt the measured solution on his skin. Keep him busy for a minute or two so he doest try to rub it off.   I would treat him just in case  because more times than not, itchy rats that scratch to the point of bleeding and scabbing usually have  parasites that we just cannot see.

Meantime, diet needs to be discussed.      

This is from your message to me:
" store bought rat food (pellets, sunflower seeds, what looks like bird seed) as well as oats, carrots, cheeses, varieties of bread, raspberries, whip cream, apples, bananas, lettuce and anything else he might like."          

I see a rat getting alots of protein and carbs and note enough of what he needs to be healthy.   Starting witht he seed mix from the petstore, from your own words, it looks like bird seed, because it is birdseed, and rats do not get what they need from bird seed to provide support to their vital organs such as kidneys and liver.     Rats need protein that is quality animal protein, but what they are getting from the seed mixes are a bunch of fattening seeds that are not only high in fat but also protein. If this mix contains the small lab blocks, they are high in protein. If it contains hard corn, the corn is a known carcinogen and contains a mold that grows over time as the corn ages. That corn may be 5 years old or older. If you would like more sources on the rat store seed mixes not being good for them, I will happily provide you with them so you can read up more. I usually have sources to back up my claims just in case someone may think I am just talking for the sake of hearing myself speak.  LOL!
Anyhow, check out my website for a list of foods that are good for our rats along with a menu of foods and food mixes you can make yourself. Sometimes a rat that is fed a seed mix will pick out their favorite pices, usually sunflowr seeds or pumpkin seeds, and that is all they eat which is not good for them. As far as protein goes, they should not have more than 15% protein, 18% for sickly rats or hairless rats that need more protein.    High protein diets cause itching and scabs, but that is usually second on the list when dealing with this issue. Usually the vet will examine the rat and give them something for parasites. if they continue to itch, they examine their diet and protein content and do just what I did, which is advise you on what foods to use. What you give him needs adjusted, esp the seed mixes, bread, whipped cream?? LOL!  What a spoiled little guy!     The dried oats are perfect as well as the fruits, but drop the breads and also the cheeses. They dont do well on cheese and believe it or not, most rats are lactose intolerant and that "mouse and cheese" bit is a myth.
That was, to me, hilarious, when I learned that.

Here is info on proper diet on my website for ya to read about too:

http://www.freewebs.com/crittercity/ratsandahealthydiet.htm

You can actually find a page on itching rats too on my site found on the side menu.

I am trying to think what else to cover here but I think I have blabbed on and on plenty, hopefully I didnt put you to sleep and hopefully my spelling wasnt too bad, either. LOL  Please let me know what else I can do for you and also if I answered all of your questions. Please dont hesitate to ask me , that is why I am here and that is what I do on a daily basis:  help rat owners help their rats.

Hope to hear from you soon!  Happy Thanksgiving!!        
Sandra          




---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Dear Sandra,

Your answers have been very helpful. The pictures of the "bleeding eyes" are exactly what happened to my rat when i gave him a bath that first day (which was probably stressful), but it has not happened since. The "bloody" nose however happens usually often, even when he appears very happy and active.

And it does not surprise me that vets would not actively know a great deal about rats.

I am also relieved to see that the orange waxy residue is also not such a bad problem, but it will be difficult to brush him because he hates me touching the buildup on his tail!

I am concerned about him having parasites. That is a scary thought, but he isnt itchy all the time. Just some times, and like I said, this is the first time he has ever scratched himself so badly. He also doesnt have scabs all over, just a tiny pin prick scab here and there, maybe 5-7 total.  

However aside from the bleeding nose and raw spot, I have discovered there are tiny drops of blood everywhere in his cage. They are on the glass, and even on the cardboard tube bedding he shredded. They are very small spots, as if he was covered in blood and shook himself like a wet dog creating a fine mist. So i dont know what is causing him to secrete such tiny amounts, seemingly constantly. They are red and brown in color.

I will try to switch his cage soon, but he was in a tank because i also have 2 cats. So i will have to move his cage elsewhere. (the cats dont really bother him ever, they dont sit on his cage or anything of that nature)

He will be very upset about the bread and cheese, because he really really loves cheese. He usually doesnt wait for me to put it in his cage, but rather grabs it from your hand. I was also giving him peanut butter, crackers and granola, but i will look through your recommended diet and adjust his accordingly.


Thank you for your help, but what could the blood spots in his cage be from?

- Leesa




ANSWER: Hi Leesa


The blood spots is from the porphryin when he sneezes. Just imagine when you sneeze and the discharge from your nose goes all over...if it were tinted red, like the rats discharge is, it would spatter all over in little dots everywhere.  My rats have the spatters all inside their hidey house and on their white paper towels, just tons of tiny spatters of porphyrin.  Thats what he is doing....sneezing and the porph shows up since its colored.

:::::
:::::  Is it like that, scattered little dots of blood colored spots all
over?
If it were blood, it would be in large droplets all over and it would be alot brighter red than what your seeing.  

Also, dont fret too much if its mites since this is common. Freeze his bedding for 24 hours before using.  Its not uncommon for mites to come in inside the bag of litter.  Also, if he seems to be ok with cheese, go ahead and give it to him. not all rats are lactose intolerant, but just limit the amounts he gets.   How much does he weigh? Is he chubby?

Peanut butter is super uber fattening and protein loaded and is a dangerous choking hazard so spread it mixed with water if you still use it...sparingly.  I hate to deny these guys foods they love since their lives are so dang short, but we are seeing rats live to be 3 and older by learning more about diet etc...and finding out protein takes a toll on the rats kidneys when they get older so low protein diets during their younger years helps to avoid kidney disease.

Also, the vet..if you want another vet that knows more about rat care, I can give you names.  Just for kicks, whats your zip code or nearest city and I will see who is practicing in your area and give you names.  No obligations to see them, but just in case you want to bring the rat in you will know where to go.  As for the tank, I have cats too but I keep my rats in a room with the door shut. However, you can cover the cage with something called HARDWARE CLOTH and you can see what this looks like on my website on the GETTING STARTED page. This is great for small rats too so it keeps them from getting out through the bars if the spacing is wide.  



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Sandra,
Yes, i dont know why i didnt think of that, but the sneezing does sound like what accounts for the "blood" spray i was seeing. There are no large deposits, thats why i was confused.

Im not sure how much he actually weighs, but he is a big rat. Not necessarily chubby (and im not one of those pet owners in self denial), just big.

Freezing sounds like a good idea.

My zip code is 85705

Answer
Here is a great great place for rats.  These vets have strong interests in exotics, although none of them have  taken the long road to become certified in exotic animal medicine, but the  whos name is listed below is.




Dr. Ashley Entringer
Valley Animal Hospital    
4984 E. 22nd Street
Tucson AZ 85711
Phone:    520-748-0331
Website: www.tucsonvalleyanimalhospital.com