male rat question

Question
QUESTION: Hello! I recently moved to Schuylkill Haven, PA and I'm looking for a vet to treat my two male pet rats. I was considering getting them neutered, but I'm having trouble finding a vet that will do it in this area. I obviously would like to find a vet that specializes in exotic animals, or at least will treat them. They were rescues from a shelter, and were not properly socialized (they were seized from an animal hoarder with 30 others). I'm hoping that neutering them will help with aggression- they are never very happy to see me...and I've been bitten more than once to the point of drawing blood. These are my first rats ever (the shelter told me they were tame and I could handle them...but...they aren't...) If I can have some help finding a good vet within a reasonable distance, I would really appreciate it. Also, how much does this type of surgery typically cost? Thanks a lot!

~Holly


ANSWER: Exeter Veterinary Hospital
4955 Perkiomen Ave
Reading, PA 19606
610-779-2300

About an hour from you.However, I wish I can say that they are certified exotic vets, but they are not.  They hold what is known as a "special interest" in exotics.  The vets that you want are located in Philadelphia and one in Cranberry, PA. Thats pretty far from you if yahoo driving directions are correct.  
This clinic is about 45 mins. from you. If they are experienced that would be worth the trip.  Soon there is a new specialty that is being offered to Vets after they finish school. It will be the new title of Exotic companion mammal vet and maybe that is what we need to finally have more vets that know what they are doing with our rats.
I wish you did not have biting rats for your first rats. Bless you for keeping them. Many people would return them only to possibly set their fate in the hands of snake owners or worse, if thats possible. I have had some biters myself, rescued lab rats that were poked, pinched and probed but when they got older and became ill, they found out that I really truly loved them even from a distance but I knew they were scared and did not trust people. I dont blame them. That is when we started to bond, afer they got sick, which of course made me happy that I could finally make them brux and boggle and enjoy being touched by a human without being hurt, even if it was only for a few months before they passed away.  I have (had)two dog pound rescues, one just passing away last week at the age of 3.5 years old. He was loving to a degree (Templeton) but his surviving cagemate, Bo, could care less if I ever existed.  LOL   Thats ok, they were purchased over 3.5 y ears ago to be the pet of a 12 month old baby. Is that the most  stupid.....ah...never mind....anyhow this baby carried them around upside down and everything and so they bit her so they were taken to the dog pound to be destroyed.  I found out about them and took them home with me after arguing with the totally uneducated dog warden about rabies and how these rats dont need rabies quarantine since they dont carry rabies anyhow and to explain to me how, if they were born in captivity they even came in contact with rabies and also, as babies, how could they live after being attacked by a rabid animal?  So he was of course tongue tied and let me have the boys, who for their entire lives have been anti social.  
On the other hand, my other rats?  They think they are dogs.  Wait, scratch that.  They think they are HUMANS!  LOL!
Both sexes are sweet, I prefer males over females since females are so prone to mammary tumors unless you spay them around 3 to 5 months of age.
As for neutering, yes, it works. It did for two of my so called "pure bred" rats that were so mean to each other that I had to neuter them the day I adopted them.  My vet is a certified avian and exotic vet with a clinic strictly for exotics, no dogs or cats allowed.  LOL  I paid about $200 for two neuters but also had to pay for two tumors to be removed from the new rat too.  The breeder had alot of nerve selling me these rats but I love them so I cant really complain and no, I didnt pay her a dime once I found the poor condition they were in.
Neutering needs done by a good vet that knows what he or she is doing and can possibly keep them overnight at least for one night and knows they need narcotic pain meds and knows how to stitch them up right etc...  if you want I can call that clinic tomorrow and drill them for you?  LOL  As per their website they do seem to have experience with them so I think they are the people to see since the choices are so limited.

Let me know what you think!

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks for the really quick reply! Reading isn't too far away...Philadelphia is about 2 1/2 hours...which would be really far if I ever needed the vet for an emergency. Reading would be much better if my boys were sick.

I almost took them back to the shelter, to be honest. It's a no-kill shelter, and they have strict policies- cats cannot be declawed and need to be indoor only, dogs must be indoor except for short periods of outside recreation, small animals can't be fed to snakes, etc. So I wasn't concerned that they would become snake food. But I was concerned that they would be labeled as "unadoptable" and would have to live out the rest of their lives in a noisy animal shelter, like probably most of the other 30 they seized. I can really see the intelligence and "spark" in their eyes (it's hard to describe...I'm sure you know what I mean) and it melts me. I want to make them happy, I just don't know what I'm doing wrong!

The girl that handles the small animals (mostly bunnies and guinea pigs, in addition to the rats they seized) has rats herself and convinced me to keep them and give them more time. She said they were fine in the shelter, that the employees had trust trained them to the point that they could pick both boys up and take them out of the cage they shared with their brothers with no problems (I watched as they demonstrated this at the shelter). I guess maybe they learned to trust the smell of the employees and not us yet?

They don't bite when they're out of the cage (they only want to come out when we take the cage apart for cleaning) so I wonder if their biting is because we're in their "territory" and when we take the cage apart to clean it, their territory disappears...or maybe they don't feel cornered as much when they're in an open area? If it's a territory thing, then neutering should help that, right?

I would really appreciate it if you could call the clinics! I don't know what questions to ask, and I want to make sure it's done right. Could you also ask how much they charge for it (including pain meds and such). The clinic in Philadelphia is a vet school, part of the University of Pennsylvania, so they might be cheaper? They might also be more advanced than the one in Reading- I don't know...I would appreciate any help! Thanks so much!

ANSWER: I would be happy to call them on Monday
Also your not doing anything wrong. These boys were not properly socialized and they are just being animals that are still unsure.  

I do know that spark you speak of..that is the spark the rats have that make them so appealing.  When people ask me when to put their rat to sleep, I always tell them "when the spark goes out in their eyes"  
and they always know what I mean.  

When they are out playing, do they have their own area to play in? Have you read my critter city website?  The URL is on my profile.  If not, check out the GETTING STARTED page and check out how to set up a fun play area that your rats can be confined in yet still have enough room to roam and things of their own to play. Once you get them used to their play area that is strictly for them during time out, it always seems to change even the most timid rat because they feel comfortable after a while and secure too.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I was wondering if you got a chance to call those vet clinics yet. I just got an email from another vet in my area who said that they would do it for $158 PER RAT. I was floored! It isn't normally that expensive, is it? Thanks!

Answer
Hi

Sorry I could not get back to you without you writing to me first since I dont have your email addy. When people write in, allexperts sends me the questions but nothing else, no personal info etc...the only way to communicate with you is through here when you write to me etc..  so I am glad you wrote!  LOL

I called the place above and they are just about the same price as where you called. They have two vets there that treat exotics.  Basically to neuter two rats it will be $300 or so....to be honest thats not that bad. The isoflurane or sevoflurane alone is expensive, around $75 for the Sevoflurane and these are the two safest to use to put the rat under. They are mostly charging you for the supplies used more than the labor involved.  I have seen other places charge over $200 per rat.