trust training progress-still biting

Question
QUESTION: Hi, I couldnt find the 'ask a follow up question' button. I'm sure I've seen one before.
Anyways, I wrote to you about my 6 month old rescue boy who started biting as soon as i got him home a week ago. I've been sitting in the play area and he has been coming up to the open door before running to the other side of his cage shaking. He shakes when i make the tiniest noise but then not at other loud noises (?) He sometimes makes a loud exhaling noise at me which i think is a warning snort.
I was just thinking oh well this is just going to take ages until he calms down- and he came out. All was going well, I wasn't doing anything. He suddenly started to be just as he was when i first got him home. He stopped 'seeming' scared and started running all over the place bruxing like mad and getting over excited. Instead of running away from me he was way too interested in me. I say that because I recognised from before that he was looking for a place to bite me. I decided to try to herd him back into his house before either of us got too anxious and leave it at that for the day but then I couldn't get him away from me and he bit me on my foot. I secured him (not picked him right up) by the base of his tale so I could then scoop him up and put him away and he carried on attacking. I'm not especially surprised at being bitten when making a swift move to pick him up but not sure what else i could have done at that point. If I'd have jumped out of the play pen he would have felt successful in scaring me off and out of 'his' play area, plus he wouldn't see it as neccessary to interact with me to get his play time.
Is the only advice to keep on in the same vein? I'm a tenacious person but I'm in so much pain here there and everywhere I can't even do normal things like drive my car or walk without a limp, which seems ridiculous. The nerves in my fingers are being damaged one by one and I've had to have stitches. You probably don't have much sympathy for my moaning at this point lol, but I'm so sad! All I want to do is cuddle him :(

ANSWER:
Stitches?  Thats insane. Any doctor knows never to stitch an animal bite.

Bite wounds, unless they turn into rips or tears,are almost never stitched, because stitching a puncture is a damn good way to get an abscess

If you have infection, thats why. Thats NUTS!

But I DO feel for you, trust me, I do. I have been there many times. I rescued lab rats that could not be any more nasty, but I never blamed them. I would be nasty too if someone pinched, poked and probed me half my life.  I had to resort to loving them from a distance but wouldnt you know it, as they got older and became ill with one thing or another, they would come to ME for attention.

Do you think he knows you fear him?  

How do you feel about neutering him?


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Regarding the stitches, it was a large tear. We left it a couple of days but the two edges were nowhere near each other and showed no signs of bonding. It still kept bleeding during this time so there was nothing else for it. I was already on anti biotics and have not got an infection. Since bringing the wound together it has started to heal and no longer looks deformed.

As for the fear; i was feeling quite calm and loving when i got in and made soothing noises. I've had a think and I'm pretty sure I didn't start to feel fear rising until he started displaying that he was going to get me!

I could understand him running away and I could understand him attacking if I'm moving towards him, sticking my hand in his cage or forcing stroking upon him. But he can be in that space and explore all the toys etc without making contact with me if that's what he wants but he is actively seeking me out and even circling me, which strikes me as being very dominant.
If he wasn't acting so petrified of me at other times- really shaking and eyes bulging, staying still like a statue- then i would have just called it out and out aggression, not fear. Maybe my boy's a schizophrenic....

As for castration, what are your views? Have you had it done? To your rats I mean lol!

ANSWER:
Ok I see now about the stitches. thats a different story. If its a puncture wound that is when it should be open.  nasty.

Anyhow, about neutering.  yes, I have had rats neutered. I believe in neutering for aggression if it will improve the rats quality of life. If he is going to be a biter and be aggressive (all due to poor breeding) that means he wont be handled much and benefit from hugs and kisses and lots of play time and good times in general. He wont get all he should get out of his short life, so yes, neutering for this reason is a great idea. In a few weeks he will be a new rat.

I bought four rats from a so called good breeder a few years ago. Two of the dumbo boys did nothing but fight with each other and the other two rats and wouldnt let me touch them and  they were biters.  I usually give them time to get used to me but when I saw the  bites in each other and also abscesses from bites, I knew that they would benefit from a neuter so the second day home off to the vets we went. They were the sweetest rats a few weeks later, like new rats!!   One health benefit would be that he would not ever have to worry about testicular abscesses or cancer, even though its not real common.  

I would seriously consider neutering him. He sounds territorial if you even get the feeling he is trying to get you out of his play area. He sees you as another rat (which reminds me.....is he alone or does he have a cagemate?)  Sometimes solo males are also a bit neurotic and will see their keeper as a peer rather than their owner if that makes sense. Also if he is alone, after neutering him, you can get him a friend and wont worry that he would fight with the other male.

I would suggest a really qualified vet though....its not just a nip here a tuck there.  If you do not have a vet that is super experienced with this,let me know and I will happily find you a vet that is an exotic specialist instead of one of the many many wannabes that see exotics but are NOT certified exotics.  



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: After a lot of soul-searching and research, I booked him in to be neutered. What would your advice be on how to handle him after he's recovered? I know he won't just change over night and after my experiences so far, I don't want to risk handling him too soon. I'm also aware that I haven't had him that long & during that time he's felt threatened and then, as of tomorrow, had he bits removed! Do I just start with trust training again?

Answer
I think this is the best solution. I really felt uneasy for both of you when I read about some of the things he was doing that was really pointing toward aggression more than the fact he was unsure of you yet and just erring on the side of caution.  Rats dont usually do that. Rats do NOT usually prey on the vulnerable unless they are aggressive. He sees you as a peer, that was clear to me. If he feared you, he would retreat to his hidey house or cage rather than think of ways to bite you!
I dont think you will need to trust train him after the neuter but it wont hurt to start with that approach. I dont suggest doing this but what I did with my two biters after their neuter is when I had to handle them to look over the surgical site. Luckily my ability to examine them saves money  and I did worry about being bitten but much to my surprise, they were submissive. Both of them were. It was during that time I think that they came to see me as the care giver, the bread winner, the hand that feeds them. This seemed to bring on a new respect for me and although they never really got super cuddly with me (one died not even 11 months later and the other one had the same thing his brother had which was meningitis, and it left him blind as well as a bit disabled due to neurological impairments such as cerebral palsy type movements etc...  so it has been difficult to make them lap rats but at least they stopped biting me and each other. The surviving rat is actually suffering from heart disease and I am not sure how long he has left and he still prefers to deal with it alone rather than let me help him. He stayed stubborn despite the neuter, but the change in both rats was visible pretty fast. Their fur stayed nice and soft and they never grew to be big 2 pound bucks like my other intact males did.

When is the big day scheduled for?