a lot of problems with peeing blood-follow up questions

Question
QUESTION: hi sandra,

i just found that i could no longer post on the previous thread about my problem regarding loki, who died due to severe blood loss passed through the urine and two of my other boys just about pulling through with the same problem.

so far so good, i have had none of the others show any signs or symptoms. finger crossed that will remain that way. however, i have heard form two toher people with the same issue. my friend sam found her boy carrot dead after work on thursday, with a lot of blood in the cage and around his private bits, indicating that he was peeing blood (i didn't have any contact with her or her rats) and someone on a forum that i am on has now reported a similar issue with one of her boys. i am still to find out how things are going with him. so far the only thing these cases seem to have in common is the base food we have our guys on (sam and i were both using alpha herbal rabit deluxe as the base for the shunamite mix) and the area we live in (sam and i both live in the portsmouth area). she burried carrotbefore i could ask her to opt for an autopsy at the vet's so still no elightenment. now, carrot was horus's and seth's brother (the two of mine who pulled through) but loki was totally unrelated so not much of a clue there either. other than the possibility that something in the water or in their food (all food has been discarded and replaced)could be causing this, we are still clueless.

xx
nicole

ANSWER: This is definitely baffling, for sure.  I doubt its food related....but just for healths sake I would not use the rabbit deluxe mix for the rats.  Alot of rabbit foods contain alfalfa, and this is something rats absolutely cannot tolerate as they cannot digest it.

I am wondering if this wasnt some viral infection that caused this?

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: dear sandra,

it may have been a viral infection. or maybe something cause by bacteria. i am still very closely monitoring the boys and am hoping that neither myself, nor sam nor the girl on the forum will have any more problems with this!

re alpha herbal: this is a pellet free rabbit food and contains no alfalfa pellets. it has been widely recommended as THE base mix for a good dry mix for rats by rat experts here in the uk. i am now using mr. johnson's supreme with fruit instead. this again does not contain alfalfa pellets. it has some grass/ straw pellets but the guys don't even look at them. these are the ingredients:

Ingredients:-- Flaked Peas Rabbit Nut (Wheatfeed Lucerne Sunflower Meal Treated Straw Oatfeed Limestone Molasses Salt Soya Oil Monocalcium Phosphate Vitamins And Trace Elements Flavour) Flaked Barley Flaked Maize Extruded Biscuits (Wheat Barley Wheatfeed) Dried Banana Slices Dried Carrot Rings Whole Barley Dried Pineapple Chunks.
Nutritional:-- Protein 14.0% Oil 3.5% Fibre 9.5% Ash 5.5% Vit A 10000iu/kg Vit D 1400iu/kg Vit E 40iu/kg Copper 20mg/kg.

i also make a point of taking out most of the bananas due to their high levels in phosphorus and i know that this can be a problem with rats with kidney problems and older rats in general. sorry for digressing form the topic of the thread but i thought it may be worth letting you know what i am feeding them. the base mix is supplemented with low sugar cereal, salt free rice cakes, dry egg noddles and vitalin dog kibble (which supplies adequate amounts of proteine is, however, not as high in proteine or fat as usual dog kibble). does that sound ok? in addition i obviously offer fresh fruit and vegetables. and also cooked cous cous or rice in small amounts for "dinner".

best wishes,
nicole

Answer
I keep forgetting things are not the same in the UK as they are here. I dont even think we have diets that healthy for rabbits in the states. It all sounds perfect and you have it down to a science as far as what they should and should not have in their diet.

I dont think their diet plays a role in what has been going on with the rats.