Male potty training- Eek!

Question
QUESTION: Hi Sandra,
I have 3 young male dumbos [litter mates] whom I have had since they were almost 6 weeks old [from a breeder with a family owned pedigree that goes back over 7 generations.  Parents are the breeders 2 favorite ratties].  They are now about 12 weeks.  They are sweet lovely etc. but I am trying to potty train them and have some questions.  

I have done all your ideas/tricks [litter pans with carefresh, rest of cage fleece, scoop errant poops back into the potty, etc].  They poop less and less in their beds [cubes and cozy cups] and thankfully, they poop more in their litter box than out, but they poop right next to it also and miss a lot too.   I know this works on the principle that rats like to be clean.

Here's the weird thing: They often wrestle in their potty, and take their food and stash it in with their poop!  Sometimes they sit in there in it and eat a prized snack.  I am also at work during the day so I do not catch them doing it in there, so I miss the opportunity to praise them like crazy.  I do see them miss and when I say no and put them in the litter box, they stop pooping and want to be held.  I don't think I'm being very effective.  Help!  I really want them to get trained and am afraid I might lose the best training period of when they are very young--or does this not matter too much?

Any help beyond your basics would be greatly appreciated!  And perhaps how successful you think I will be...  
thanks!
Melany

ANSWER: Nope, your doing it all right.  Its them....they are still too young to totally grasp the concept, but they will get it eventually.  My three boys were like that too, even slept in it, but as they age, this stopped and now they are like cats...they wake up, stretch, run tot he litter box, dig a spot in the litter to go, spin around and put their rumps in the hole they dug and concentrate.....LOL.....and one of the boys is even polite enough to bury the poops. LOL!

They will catch on, they have to get a little older and a little more serious about life first but as long as they prefer to use the litter and there is no litter to be found except in the litter box, they will learn to go there always to poop.  Dont expect them to pee there and only there though.  My boys still wet to bed at 8 months old! They do pee in it but not as much as they do poop. I put down thick layers of newspaper and top that off with the needle point plastic canvas sheets found at walmart. This keeps the urine away from them and really cuts down on odor remarkably. The holes in the needle point plastic let the urine drain and the thick layer of  papers absorbs it.  Hope this helps!

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QUESTION: Thank you, Sandra.  This helps a great deal.  It is good to know that a good part of it is their age!  Thanks also for the newspaper and plastic needlepoint sheets--do you put the fleece or fabric bedding over this?  I don't have real high hopes about their pee since they are boys, but it is smelly and if this helps, I'm all for it!
cheers!

ANSWER: Yes, just think of the newspaper as the sub floor and the plastic needle point canvas as the floor, think of the fleece as the carpet! LOL!  I dont use fleece for my three guys though. They pee, it smells, I end up taking it out by the end of the day. Just one good soaking and it stinks, as I am sure you know. I buy cheap white paper towels and since they are cheap, they rip easy,  so I take a nice pile of them, probably 1/4 of the role, and rip them up, first in half, and second, rip each half in half and VIOLA! There you have nice comfy layers that can be thrown away as needed.  On the other hand, to be more cost effective, it is a good idea to just use the fleece and keep enough on hand that you dont have to wash them daily.  I stopped using hammocks etc...for them. They enjoy their plastic hidey houses packed with paper towels and I have one of those ferret balls with the holes in it hanging from the ceiling of the cage and they also have their paper towels in there to snuggle with.  They love to make nests and shred the paper towels!

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QUESTION: Great ideas with the paper towels!  Thanks.  You must have a membership at Costco or Sams ha ha.  Funny because I have sewn shelf liners [with bumpers], and made hammocks so that I can just throw everything in the wash when stinky, but the towels actually sound better.  Funny isn't it--trying to figure out the best system?  Again and hence--my desire to get them potty trained!  
I read some of your other posts [wish you lived up here!] and read about your three litter mate boys who are having aggression issues...  I was hoping I wouldn't have this problem getting three bothers as babies, but I guess I have that to look forward to next!!  Sheesh...  Are your boys any better now?
Thanks!
Melany

Answer
I buy the  bounty basic at Walmart or even Walmart brand white paper towels are good enough.

As for my boys? They are a pain in the neck. LOL
I moved from NC to Florida a few months ago and have a vet but do not really know much about him yet and I admit, I am scared to have my boys neutered.  Right now, they are in their own ratty apartment living solo.  Their cage is a three story cage I made using three cages that are each 24 X 12.  I put one on top of the other and cut openings in the tops, added ladders and VIOLA! A nice roomy three story cage.  After their brutal fighting, I had to remove the ladders and used them to cover the openings to the other levels and wired the metal ladders in place so they cant get through to the next level. Each rat has his own hidey house (two have the plastic waffle house thingy you put together like a puzzle) the other one has a ferret ball that hangs from the ceiling) they each have their own small 8 inch long by 4 inch wide rectangle plastic litter box , food bowls and water bottle and thats it!  Playtime?  I have to bring one rat at a time out to play. I keep them out for 30 to 40 minutes each.  To think I use up 120 mins. a day for playtime when they can all play together for that long.  They fight like crazy. They hiss, circle each other, bite, pee on each other...its terrible.  they are NOT aggressive rats, however. They are sweet to me and do not bite people.  Its puberty right now. Usually when males go through puberty, they want to be king. Usually, the others just submit and dont care, and the alpha goes about his business happy as can be and everyone gets along.  However, when you get three head strong rats that ALL want to be king, there is trouble to be had.  If I was still in NC they would have been neutered two weeks ago....but now....forget it. I will wait it out. I dont want to run out and buy two cages and just separate them though....I will stick it out and work with them for the next few months. Meanwhile, I may save my pennies for one of the best vets in Florida, who is Dr. Teresa Lightfoot. She is the queen of Avian/exotic vets in the United states and has taught many exotic vets, including mine when I lived in NC. She is in Tampa about 2.5 hrs north of me and I am sure the surgery is plenty, esp for three rats but I would trust her more than anyone else here.   I am confused...here I am, all this experience and I am just at a loss....well...not a loss, I know the problem, I just want to solve it NOW, not two months from now when their testosterone levels start to dwindle.  B-RATS!  LOL