My fish are dying - Ive tried almost everything

Question
QUESTION: To make a very long story short, I inherited a tank in August 2010 and had never raised fish before.  About a week ago I had 2 mollys, 2 platys and a catfish in a 10 gallon tank.

I vacuumed their tank a couple weeks ago and in a few days found that one of the molly's had Ich.  I talked to Petsmart who gave me the Tetra fizzy tabs with instructions to give it to them for 7 days and then a 20% water change.  At the end of that process, one of the platys had fin rot and died (I removed him from the tank to a holding tank when I knew he was dying).  Everyone seemed happy but 2 days later the original molly had what I thought might be Ich but also what looked like rock salt on his lips and eye.  I called a fish store who told me to let him die, and then called Petsmart who told me to separate him and then treat him, details to follow.  I was also told that I should have a heater (which I didn't know I needed) and should use salt in the community tank.  I removed him and the following happened (I logged it all):
1/28 = Moved BM (black molly) to quarantine tank.  Water is 1/2 from community tank, 1/2 fresh, treated with water conditioner.
Gave him dose of API Fungal cure and dose of Melafix.  Gave the CT (community tank) a dose of Melafix, a gallon of fresh water and treated with API stress coat.  The CT water was tested at Petsmart and they told me it showed high in nitrates but that could be off because of me using Prime, which I had used a week or so before.

1/29 = Added pinch of aquarium salt to BMs tank, he was already showing HUGE improvement. Added Melafix to CT, added salt to CT.

1/30 = Added Melafix and Fungal Cure (per the instructions) to BMs tank.  He looks cured.
The filter on the community tank broke in the evening.  I took the lid off of their tank overnight.  I also added a heater to the community tank and set it to 78 degrees.

1/31 = First thing in the AM the molly and platy in the CT were acting oddly.  Seeming to gasp at the top of the tank, and not leaving the top of the tank.  I bought a filter as early as the store opened but when I got back the platy was dead.  I also noticed brown marks around the other molly's eye.  He showed no interest in food and the water coming from the filter seemed to push him around.  At that point I remembered the fish store employee told me that if the BM is sick the others would have what he had so I decided to just give that tank the Fungal Cure and Melafix treatment.  That evening the other molly was dead.

So right now I have the black molly in the quarantine tank and the catfish in the community tank and I don't know what to do.  The molly's treatment is over tomorrow but I'm afraid to move him back to the tank and I don't know what to do with the catfish.  I sorta wish I could put the catfish in with the molly (it's just a 1.5 gallon tank) and completely clean out the community tank and start fresh.  Mostly I don't know what I did wrong.  In the end I thought the salt and the heater would turn things around for them all and instead they died.  I would appreciate any help.

ANSWER: Desiree,

Okay.  I want to write you back as soon as possible to hopefully prevent further disaster.

Let's deal with the Molly first.  One quarter cup of marine salt per gallon, dissolved completely, in his own aquarium.  This is a permanent thing for the molly and if you add more, then they must live there also.

You can't put the catfish in the tank salted that heavily.  He will need to be treated separately.

This will ultimately cure the issue and you might be incredibly suprised to know this scenario is not uncommon to Mollies who are kept in Freshwater systems.

In the wild, Mollies are found in Florida.  They swim along the reefs, in pure marine water, and up tributaries, in brackish water, and play around the Mangrove roots.  They rarely go to freshwater, but are capable of handling it, which brings me to my points.  Petstores notoriously sell them as freshwater fish.  Experts will sit and argue with people about their being freshwater and when a more knowledgeable expert tells them differently, they will vehemently deny it, however a fact is a fact.  Mollies are not freshwater fish.

Any molly raised in a tank with freshwater will simply be sick more often and will live a short life. They must have salt in their water.  A minimum of 1 quarter cup per gallon is required.  

My mollies are full marine and live in my saltwater system and do fantastic!  Babies everywhere.

So, the first thing is to get the molly to a heated tank of 80 degrees F with one quarter cup of marine salt per gallon dissolved in it.

The Molly will also need a back filter to oxygenate the tank but I guarantee if the fish is salvageable at all, you will witness a miraculous recovery just by getting it into some salt.

Now, let's deal with the other issues.  You have Ich and you also have fungal issues, and now nitrates as well, which means ammonia.

There are good indications that the fish who died last, died from ammonia poisoning.  Signs of that are burns on the skin (the marks around the eyes) and swimming at the top gasping for air.

Bad signs.

I'd treat the catfish separately, again using salt, but at a rate of only 3 teaspoons per gallon.

I'd clean the whole aquarium they were housed in and I'd scrub the tank and rock before returning it.  It will go through a new tank cycle for a couple weeks, but in a couple weeks, you can return the catfish to his home.

Meantime, there's no better opportunity or way to rid your aquarium of nasty infections and dirt than to clean it.  So take this opportunity to do so.

Also...most important, don't reuse any filtration media.  Buy new.

Filters need cleaned every month, and if you use a HOB (hang on back) filter, you need to change pads monthly, but while it is newly set up, change them twice that month instead of once, and change 25% of the water every 3 days for two weeks.

Don't use any products...put in filtered water.  The tank will thank you and your fish will thank you.  Tap water is chemically enhanced.  Why not start with good water?  I take five gallon bottles to a fill station.  1.00 per five gallon bottle to fill it, and you can always use buckets instead of bottles if it's easier.

So, here's a recap of my advice:

1. All aquariums being used must be heated if fish are in them.  80 degrees during treatment.  Mollies require 80 degrees year-round.  Catfish can be 78.
2. Separate the two fish into two separate hospital tanks.  Treat both with salt, but treat them differently.  Catfish cannot handle saltwater like mollies can.  Molly's tank needs one quarter cup of marine salt per gallon, dissolved, a filter and heater.  Catfish's tank gets three teaspoons of dissolved marine salt per gallon and a filter and heater.
3. Treat for four days for the catfish.  Begin water changes after four days.
4. No other chemicals need be used.  Melafix = useless.
5. Take this opportunity to clean the main tank thoroughly.

Additionally, I'd like to know a couple other things.  I have a feeling my advice may help for these.

#1: What make/model of filter do you use?
#2: What size is your aquarium?
#3: What is your feeding ritual with the fish?
#4: What kind of food is being fed to the fish

I truly hope this helps and I'm so sorry you lost your fish.  Please respond with more information so I can be of assistance, giving you more of the best advice I am able. :)

Renee



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Renee, thank you for the advice.

I'll answer your questions but I have a couple followups of my own.

My community tank, the one housing the catfish, is 10 gallons.  The quarantine tank, with the Molly is 1.5 gallons.  Do I need to go and purchase another tank for the catfish or can he live with the Molly until the large tank is hospitable?  I ask because I live in the Chicagoland area and we are entering into a blizzard starting tonight and I don't know when I can get another (and my husband will kill me, but I'll deal with that. :))


The filter I just purchased is a Tetra Whisper 10i internal power filter.  The last one was also a Tetra Whisper that came with the tank (Marineland).  The heater is a stealth pro shatterproof for up tp 15 gallons.

I just switched their food today from TetraMin to Omega 1 per advice from the fish store, though only the black Molly ate, of course.  I have gotten a lot of advice about their eating and starting saturday we switched to every other day once a day, food the size of my fingernail.  For the black Molly I was giving him 2 flakes.  Before that we fed them once a day, a "small pinch".

I do not have a heater for the molly's hospital tank.  Should I take the community tank heater and put it in his?
I will buy filtered water (not distilled, right?) but should I still use water conditioner or stress zyme?
You're suggesting just salt and heat for healing, yes?
For the future, it looks like I should keep my molly in his own tank and fill the other tank with true freshwaters, or just go all Molly all the time, yes?

Thanks so much,
Desiree

ANSWER: Hello Desiree,

Oh New York.  I don't envy you from my California 70 degree weather...lol.

Let's modify the entire advice a bit to suit your needs.  :)

First, keep the catfish with the molly.  Add 3 teaspoons of salt per gallon to that tank.  Use Kosher salt or salt containing no iodine.  If you can not get to a store, to get marine salt, use the kosher or the plain salt.  It will work.  Just salt without any additives.  The reason I suggest Marine Salt, however, is it contains lots of good nutrients and additives which nutrify the fish safely in trace ammounts.

So, the Molly and catfish will then be in one tank.  Clean the 10 gallon.  When that's up and running again, in four or five days, the fish should show signs of improvement.

Change out one third of the hospital tank of water every day and add 1.5 teaspoon of salt to that to keep it at the rate of 3 tsp per gallon.

Heat the hospital tank to 80.

If you don't have another heater for the main tank, no worries.  No fish are in it for now.

Anytime you have a hospital tank, it's got to have heat.  Keep an eye open for another heater for next time.  Keep Marine Salt in the cupboard.  It's very helpful.

When you clean the 10 gallon tank, don't boil the gravel.  Instead, put in half a cup of salt and a gallon of water and swish it til it's clean...pour out the water and then rinse with fresh water.  The idea is to kill the Ich without killing all the beneficial bacteria.  You don't want to have to cycle your 10 gallon tank again.

Now as to the filter.  I suspected that it would be insufficient and it's a pet peeve of mine to bring this up in an answer, if I'm able to, and this filter is very insufficient for your system.  It might be sufficient for your 1.5 gallon, but in no way, shape or form can it handle a 10 gallon tank.

Please consider buying something like this product.  It is appropriately rated (although it claims it does more) for your aquarium and it looks nice as well.

I use this on a 5 gallon hospital tank and no nitrates, no ammonia...nothing.  I use it on a 7 gallon nano in the guestroom and perfect water conditions.  It is enough to support a 10 gallon and if you get a look at how this filters compared to what you've been using, you will see what I mean about the difference in quality.  This should solve your water issues, but you will still need to change the pad every month and 25% of the water in your tank monthly.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Aqua-Tech-power-filter-20-40-gallon-/190495708257?pt=LH_Defa

It says 20 to 40 gallons.  It's more like 10 to 15, but it will go well with your setup and it's not huge or ugly.  I love mine.  It works well and it wasn't too much money.

So, a recap:

1. Both fish go into the hospital tank and the tank gets 3 teaspoons per gallon (if the tank is 1.5 gallons, that equals 4.5 teaspoons of salt, dissolved), and the heater goes to the 1.5 gallon.  Set the heat to 78, not 80.  I would not want to overheat the tiny tank with a heater which is too large.

2. Clean the main tank.  Get the gravel out and use saltwater (one quarter cup and a gallon of water) to swish the gravel in repeatedly for about five minutes while the salt works its magic, killing bacteria and the ich for good.  Rinse thoroughly with fresh water.

3. Set 10 gallon tank back up and run new filter in it.  In one week, begin changing water at a rate of 10% every 3 days for 3 weeks...meantime, the other fish should be improving, healthwise.

4. Change 1.5 gallon tank's water daily.  Take out half a gallon.  Add 1.5 teaspoons of salt everytime you replace that half gallon to still equal 3 teaspoons per gallon.  

After four days, if everyone looks healed, you can decrease to a total salt of 2 teaspoons per gallon, but soon as the catfish goes back to his original tank (in 3 weeks), the salt in the hospital tank should go back up if you could consider keeping the Molly with salt in the tank.  It will live a much longer life this way.  Maybe you can get her a brackish system in the future.  Same setup as the 10 gallon, but with a quarter cup of marine salt per gallon.

Filtered water is best.

In the future, the molly should have her own tank, and/or you could go mollies all the time, but the catfish isn't brackish, so this may pose a slight issue. :)  

I hope this helps.  If you need anymore info, please, feel free to ask.  I will check off and on throughout the next few hours.



Renee


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Renee,

Thanks again for all your help. I just wanted to let you know that I put the catfish in the hospital tank and followed your instructions for that tank.  I happened to have some aquarium salt that I purchased over the weekend, so I used that.  I do wonder if I was supposed to use water conditioner in the water, but I did use "drinking water" from the grocery store.  I hope that was the right stuff.

I haven't cleaned the 10 gallon yet.  I know this is a dumb question, but I just want to be sure.  I should be dumping out that water entirely and using salt to clean the rocks, yes?  Then I fill the tank (with filtered water) and run it for a week or so before even thinking about putting either the molly or the catfish in there.  Oobviously they will end up separated, once I figure out what direction to go with the 10 gallon.  I'm not sure right now how I feel about purchasing and maintaining two tanks (not to sound heartless, but it was difficult to watch all these fish die and as I mentioned, my husband will balk at the thought of me spending more for another tank :) ).

I will likely purchase that filter (I really do want to do the right thing!), though I think the lid on their tank won't fit on there because of it.  I noticed that Walmart has it for $10, so that you for the better linked price.

Thanks again,

Desiree

Answer
Hello Desiree,

You are so welcome.

There are no dumb questions. :)

You should be dumping out the water, entirely and using the salt to clean the rock and tank decorations.  Rinse thoroughly with water when done and place back into the tank.  Be sure to wash the aquarium thoroughly, as well.  The idea is to kill the ich parasite with the salt.  You might even let it soak about four hours in it.  It will not hurt to use a very strong solution of salt, for instance, a cup to a gallon of water (you can use table salt for this, since fish won't go into this salt solution...it's just for washing) and you can be sure no ich will live.

Glad it sounds like you will get them taken care of in the long run also. :)  Keep in touch if you need to.  

Happy fish-keeping!

Renee