where is my rats poo?

Question
QUESTION: I bought a young female rat from a pet store 3 days ago. She is in a wire cage with fabric on the lower floor and toilet paper as bedding in her nests. I read that you can litter train your rat buy picking up their droppings and putting them in a box. I am using carefresh in the litter box, which I used to have as bedding. My question is that all the poop i put in the litter box is gone, and if I add more it disapears.I Looked around, but maybe she hid it really well or else she could be eating it. I have moved her into a different cage everyday for the past 3 days so I thought maybe she is stressed out. Do you think she is eating her poop? If so what should I do? Is there any reason she would want to hide it? Thanks

ANSWER: Hi Holly
Happy holidays!!

As for the mysterious disappearing poohs, have you looked outside the cage at all? I have had rats push their poohs outside the cage through the bars and it would fall on the floor.
I have always trained my rats to use a litter pan doing what you have done which is to keep  litter ONLY in the pan and use some other form of cover on the floor. I use fleece or baby blankets cut to fit the floor of my cages and change it out every other day since they only use the litter pan to go to the bathroom at least    90  percent of the time.
Anyhow, about eating of the feces. Believe it or not, this is normal behavior for rats and it is called coprophagia.

Rats do this for a few reasons as this is a normal thing for rodents to do even though to us it is just simply...gross!

Eating their own feces actually replaces nutrients that were missed being absorbed during the first phase of digestion so they do this to recover those lost nutrients.

Eating their feces also aids in maintaining the normal gut flora that is needed.  

You asked what you should do and the answer is nothing. To tell you the truth, interruption of this practice can interfere with the health benefits it provides....nasty as it sounds.

My concerns are, is she indeed going to the bathroom? I worry she is constipated? Also, can you tell me what color and markings she has?

Also, rather than toilet paper, you can use white paper towels. They are very absorbent and less dusty when shredded, and less expensive too. I use white bounty but generic is fine.

Let me know for sure if your positive she is indeed passing stools. Some young rats, often rats called "high whites" and that have a blazed pattern for markings, can be prone to a condition that can be very dangerous called mega colon. First signs are lack of passing stools which is why I wanted to be sure she is  going.

Keep me posted


Regards

Sandra



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Sandra, Thank you so much for responding to my question!! My rat is albino. She is going to the bathroom okay. I thought she was eating it because everything I had put in her litter box had disappeared. I found that she was actually bringing them into one of her nests. Its the one where she usually sleeps and where she stores all of her food. I am not sure if she is saying she wants that to be where she goes to the bathroom, or if she is just trying to store it up. I thought that they didn't like having there poop where they spend their time. I changed the towels at the bottom of the cage and put all the poo back in the litter box and took out the toilet paper she had been using as bedding in her nest so that only the litter box would smell like poop. If she keeps taking it into her house how should I reinforce trying to litter train her?

Also she has regular poop most of the time, but has had disgusting diahria once a day when I am holding her. I thought that maybe she just didn't have a good diet at the pet store but want to make sure.

Also she was not sneezing at all when I was holding her in the pet store, but has been sneezing since I brought her home. I wasn't sure if I should bring her to the vet for these two things or if they are normal. She doesn't have any kinds of discharge and she doesn't wheeze or have a hard time breathing.
I am planning on buying two more babies from a breeder in 5 weeks and I want to make sure mine is okay before I buy them. Also I am worried about her being alone for the 5 weeks until I bring home the babies and then the 3 weeks or so that they will be in quarantine, but I was worried about buying another one from the pet store so decided to wait for these babies to be old enough. Should I be worried about leaving her without a buddy for so long?

Thank you!!! I hope you had a great Christmas!

ANSWER: Hi Holly!

First of all, KUDOS to you for knowing about quarantine. I am SO happy you are aware of it, so many people are not and I have to suggest reading a page on my website about it. I wouldn't worry about her being alone that long, it should be fine.
First, the loose stools. Sounds like what is called "fear poop" Strange name, I know.  She is still unsure of you and when you hold her, she is so nervous she lets go whatever inside her. Very common. It will pass as you work with her to trust you. Is she shy with you? If so, a few tricks...for starters, if she freaks out when you pick her up, don't try to pick her up any more. You need to trust train her and let her make the decision to come to you, even if this means taking extra time waiting for her to come out of the cage herself....which may take a few days of repeating the same steps.  I will spare all the details unless you tell me she is shy of you and again, if thats the case, I will go over the steps to trust train her.  She needs a safe and secure play area also, as will the new ratlets. I found recently a great idea on how to build a wall out of cardboard. You use this wall to make a play area and put the cage in this enclosed area plus YOU can also sit inside the big circle and the rats cannot climb the cardboard if you construct it right. PERFECT for baby ratlets and a safe place to play with them since they are slippery and fast little buggers!
Next, the sneezing.  Totally normal when rats are adjusting to their new environment. Rats learn by sniffing and smelling and they inhale alot of particles that are in the air. This causing sneezing. Also, if she was kept on pine or cedar bedding at the pet store, she is reacting to being away from it and actually cleaning out her airways from it. The phenol oils found in those two litters are very toxic for rats and often when the rat was kept on it, this is the result that happens when they are removed from it. As long as she is eating and active and has no porphyrin discharge from her eyes and nose (a dab of that on the nose upon waking up from a long nap is also normal, esp for a white rat) People mistake it for blood but its really made from a gland located behind the eyes called the HARDERIAN GLAND.
Does your rat have red or pinkk eyes?  They are referred to as PEW (pin eyed white) in that case. Sounds cute compared to saying "Albino"!  :-)

Last but not least, do you have a vet in mind? If not, I can find an exotic specialist in your area (once you tell me where your located that is....lol) It can be hard finding the right vet for rats. Too many general vets say they see rats yet are not properly equipped to care for them properly causing more harm than good but unfortunately there are only 150 certified exotic specialists in the entire world...some states have just 3 exotic vets, and others have 40 ,like California!
Anyhow, hope this helped answer your questions.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Sandra, Thank you so much again for your answer! I don't know how you have time to give such detailed answers to everybody.
I finally decided on a name for my rat. I think I will call her Sadie. She is a PEW. She is definitely shy and defiantly has fear poop. She doesn't come to me right away from her cage. It takes awhile to get her to come the first time, but I give her a treat once she gets on my hand and after a little bit she is totally comfortable, running up and down my arm, but it seems like I have to start from scratch everyday. If I hold her a lot she seems to get comfortable but anything new like sudden movements or if my husband holds her, then she will poop. She is still really really sweet and after holding her for a block period she will groom my finger nails and lick my fingers. She seems to like it when i pet her when she is taking a nap. She is the fastest little thing I have ever seen when I play chase her with my hand in her cage, but she never tries to get away when she was out and always stays close to me even if I let her run around free.
I have been researching for hours every day on the Internet to learn as much as I can.  I had rats as pets when I was a teenager and I can see now that I had been doing alot of things wrong. I used to keep them in an aquarium with cedar chips and hamster seed mix, and I didn't know that you should have them in pairs, so they were usually alone. I had never heard of quarantine.  Plus almost all of them died from tumors and it was heartbreaking. I already love my little rat and am worried about her getting a tumor when she is older. I read on line that you can spay them if you want to minimize the risk of tumors. Would you say that is a good idea or is there anything else I can do to minimize the risk?
That would be great if you know a resource to find a vet. I live in Frederick, MD but don't mind driving. I have been doing Internet searches for one and the closest I could find was some one that said they can care for hamsters.
Also when we picked her out we went to all four pet stores in my city and none had them separated by sex so she could possibly be pregnant.
She stopped hiding her poop after I changed all the bedding in her cage and started over. She is actually getting pretty close to the litter box.

Also I want to handle them(Sadie and also the babies when I get them) as much as possible but wanted to see how much is best. I work for myself and could have one with me all day if I wanted. That's one reason I thought I would get two babies, so that I could have one out and two still together in the cage. Is that good or should I let them be in their cage more? Should I avoid holding them a lot in the day since they are normally sleeping then, or can I just let it sleep in my pocket?
Thanks again for reading my long questions!! Also do you have any favorite books about rats?  I ordered a book called Training Your Pet Rat, but want to buy one that talks about general car too.

Thanks!!!!! Holly


Answer
Hi Holly

For starters, my answers are lengthy because I answer so many things between here and my own website, alot of it is right on the tip of my tongue from repeating the same thing alot....I should mention I am a super fast typist too, about 130 wpm but of course thats not without error. :-)
I will answer the things you asked starting from last to first since I  am staring at your message now  (the bottom of the page) its easier to work upwards. LOL
About handling them: You can never handle them too much. I encourage people to handle pups from the day they are born (or the day after)  gently stroking them and talking to them This way, they are very positive toward humans are are very social and easy to handle.   
As for books on rat care, there is very few on the market I support,  and that would be the one written by the rat lady, Debbie Ducommun.      Most others are outdated or inaccurate, often written by someone that never even owned a rat before.
I am currently working on a rat care book after being encouraged by many people, but the way its going, it will take a while. I have other outside interests and making time for them as well as my family life and of course my rats and dealing with them, its time consuming (plus my time spent as a volunteer here and at Askcritterkeeper@yahoo.com which is found on my website. I get several things per week on there too but not as much as here at allexperts. I enjoy it and try to respond as fast as I can but last night was an exception because I had some pretty invasive not to mention uncomfortable surgery on my mouth this past Friday so I wasn't feeling well enough to even check my messages till now which is 4am Saturday morning. LOL  I slept the day away on Friday after returning from the oral surgeon. Ouch.

Anyhow, back to rats...tumors and how to minimize the risk.
Unfortunately, the only way to do that is to spay them at an early age as you  stated,          while estrogen levels are still low. Once estrogen levels rise, usually around 18 to 20 months old, which is the typical age for menopause  in female rats. Any age is a good age to spay to be honest, with an experienced vet and a healthy rat, but the sooner the better.
As for the vet , can you tell me what large city your near? I stink in geography. Ask me anything about a rodent, no problem, ask me what the capital of Utah is and forget it.  LOL
Ok I am kidding, I am not THAT bad, but pretty dang close.

I promise you wont have to wait long for a response about the vet. I am on bed rest the next 3 days (oh joy!) so I have nothing  but time on my hands.