prolapsed uterus and need a vet

Question
QUESTION: My daughter's rat, Elizabeth, is one year old and in robust health.

Five days ago we noticed bleeding from her vagina. Two days later we saw a large bubble of red and I assumed it was a tumor.

She continued to be active and was eating well. When I noticed she could not urinate I rushed her to our dog and cat vet. He pulled the red bubble out and it looked like he attempted to pop it, he determined it was her uterus and cleaned it up, pushed it back in and put in a stitch with directions to cut it open after 24 hours.

We kept her from chewing it for that long and then I snipped it off only to have her uterus pop out again.

He repeated the same and this time the recommendation was to leave the stitches in as long as possible.

When they cleaned up her hanging out uterus this time it appeared pussy and not the same color as the antibiotic cream they slathered her uterus in. She was also given a shot of antibiotics both times and I was sent home with 5 prefilled shots to give her.

She is happy, eating, playing, sleeping more than usual, which is good since when she is awake I have to keep reminding her not to touch the stitch.

He said the answer was surgery to stitch her uterus up into her body. I asked if he could spay her and he admitted to not feeling okay doing that as he didn't know rats.

hmmm

He said he could find a vet in Austin or San Antonio but that I was probably looking at 3 to 5 hundred for a spay.

I guess I want to know should I bother with this week long vigil on the vaginal stitch and the antibiotics or just find an exotic vet to have her spayed. What is the chance of this working?

She is a very bright rat, a lot warmer and social than her sister who misses her in the big rat cage greatly.

I also have her on rat acidophilus and super red and green liquid diet food to build up her strength. I have a hunch after a lot of research this afternoon that she had a yeast infection since the raw itchy skin and the prolapsed uterus seem to go hand in hand in a lot of cases.

I have (therefore) completely removed all sugars from her diet (fruit) and simple carbs (bread, crackers). She is on very high quality rat food, the drinks I mentioned and raw veggies.

Di

ANSWER:
I would get her spayed ASAP.  She should do just fine with a good vet.

What kind of antibiotic injection are you giving?  I hope its not baytril.  Baytril should never be injected into a rat because it is very caustic and causes nasty ulcerations.  Since the rat lacks body mass, the injections are given subcutaneously, and when using baytril, it coagulates under the skin and after a few days the rat ends up with the most nasty ulcer that is not only painful but can bleed profusely and warrants skin grafting which can be costly. If you are using it, stop now and let me know, I will tell you how to use it orally. Inject able baytril is used orally, although it doesnt taste so great. Hopefully you will tell me its NOT baytril and I just blabbed all of this out....at least it would be a warning for others in case they were not aware of this fact.

Anyhow, here is what I have for the mice and rats vet:

Dr. Ariana Finkelstein
I-10 Pet Emergency/ Southeast Animal Hospital    
10822 Fredricksberg Rd/ 3608 S. Gevers Street
San Antonio TX 78240/78210
Phone:    after hours 210 691-0900/210-534-4300;





GREAT PLACE!  Dont let the name fool ya they see rats and all small mammals too.
Dr. Paul Skellenger
Research Pet & Bird Hospital
11679 Research Blvd.
Austin, Texas 78759
Tel: (512) 258-2577
Tel: (512) 258-3050
Tel: (512) 331-6121 emerg.
Fax: (512) 346-4571

http://www.researchpet.com/vetcaredogscatsbirds/staff.html




---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I contacted the vet in San Antonio and the one working nights 8 PM to 8 AM said she was the only one she would trust to a rat surgery.

I called the next morning after she had once again lost her stitch and her uterus was extended out of her vagina and asked for an appointment (Sunday night). They told me to come in.

I asked the cost and they said they couldn't tell me as that was up to the vet. At 6PM I called again saying I would be in, it was a 2 hour drive. At that point they told me it would be over $1000 for a spay. There is just no way I could do that.

I then called the Austin clinic and they use another clinic for after hours care. She said to wait until morning and they would do the spay at the regular research pet hospital.

We have all been up round the clock for 4 days now trying to get Elizabeth to not chew her stitches.

I got her in at 10 am and they told me the surgery would be 500. Then they came back and said 250.

They offered to keep her overnight. They said they had no one on staff during the night though. I asked how they would prevent her from chewing her wound and they said they would fashion a cone.

I agreed to take her home after the surgery instead of leaving her unattended. When I picked her up she was sluggish and not using her hind legs properly I see now that she is once and awhile.

They said there was a large tumor in her uterus and that they did the spay. I assumed they would use blind stitches but they didn't. I asked how was I to keep them in for two weeks and they recommended a sock. No way will she staying a sock!

I asked why they didn't use blind stitches and they said she had already been under for an hour and her body temp was starting to drop so they wanted to close her up and take her off the anesthetic as fast as possible.

So I guess I have 2 weeks of no sleep stopping her from chewing all night? I already tried gauze and tape. I put it on tight she pulled it off immediately. I couldn't keep a harness on her so I doubt she will keep a cone on if I could make one small enough (she is 280grams).

Help.

Is there anything I can do to put a barrier between her and the stitches so if we look away for a minute we have a chance?

She came home with metacam .5mg/ml .07 ml x 7 by mouth every 24 hours starting tomorrow at 11 am

batril liquid raspberry .29ml every 12 hours starting tonight.

Follow up visit in one week.

Stitch removal appointment in 2 weeks.

She does not appear to be in pain but is cramping and rolling about. She is drinking a LOT and eating.

I have her in a small basket with the opening to the front, a blanet and we cart her around with us. I put her in my bed and put her basket between my daughters and my pillow. I sleep with my hand on her and when she wakes up so do I and I stop her from chewing.

I am feelin like I am coming down with the flu and I don't know if I can do it for 2 weeks.

Di

ANSWER: There is no easy way to do it really.  I wish I could help more. I can see their point though about her being under long enough and why they couldnt get fancy with the sutures.  My son had surgery to correct his scoliosis.  He is 18 and was under 10 hours. I was a mess (this was back in March)  His doctor did the stitches from inside and he has nothing but a flat pink line down his back, all 18 inches of it.

My vet also does the invisible stitching if he has time.

I have to say this though, be glad she is alive. Spaying is super invasive and its a risky surgery, more so than most surgeries.  I have had my rats tumors removed, neutered, even had one of them have an eye removed due to a nasty infection and all was well. My vet, who is a super skilled exotic specialist and deals in an all exotic mammal clinic, no dogs and cats, and he hates to spay. Absolutely hates it. He said it is so risky that if I ever have girls again (I probably wont for this very reason) to buy SIX, yes SIX of them, and he will spay them all and only charge me for the survivors.  Another reader here wrote and her very skilled exotic vet also told her he loathes spaying small mammals. No vet wants to lose a patient on the table, but when it comes to spaying, its more of a risk, so they would prefer to NOT lose the rat and forget the spay unless it was an emergency.  Your girl had no other option.  I knew it had to be a tumor that was doing it. Imagine if you just let the other vet stitch her vaginal opening closed.  She would probably be dead by now from bleeding after the uterus had prolapsed all the way. the infection would have also spread and gone to her blood stream.....I wish I had a better choice of Vets for you though....the dream clinic is where they have 24 hour nursing care etc....and of course it doesnt cost you an arm and a leg for treatment, either!!   I do hope you feel better.   I had the swine flu that turned around and put me in the hospital with double pneumonia.  It was right after I lost my last rat, my 2 and 3/4 year old boy with the one eye, and lost my other boy in May.  He was 4 !!    I was upset and think that weakened by immune system.

Anyhow, how are things tonight?

Oh by the way, did the vet use surgical glue at all?

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Well the oldest daughter and I have decided we will just sleep opposite one another to watch her.

I heard no word of glue from the doc and I see none. He recommended I try the stick to itself tape and I did. I think I did it too tight and she seemed distressed so I quickly removed it. I hope I didn't hurt her. I thought about covering her stitches with crazy glue. Anything at this point to keep the mad chewer in one piece!!

Don't worry I didn't but I am considering it. I had my daughter at home and the midwife glued my perineum with it. Works like a charm but I didn't chew on it <grin>.

She is now not using her back legs at all. I am hoping she is just not choosing to because it hurts her stitches when she does and it is not based on something else. She has not urinated nor had a bowel movement since surgery.

I am worried about her but I think you are right and she will be fine. She drank lots of water and five dropperfuls of green food so she is still wanting to be alive.

My husband is out of town for two weeks. Lucky duck <grin>.

I am so sorry for your loss. I know how deep a rat can creep into your heart. I am sad for you.

I also will listen about females from now on. I had one rat when I was a teen and it was suppose to be a male but it wasn't. When Louie got a huge growth the vet just said yup that's the way it is and he bleed to death when he scratched it open.

I had no idea there were options for rats until I found your site two days ago. So you my dear are the one who saved her life. We did lots of research on what to feed, house, play, needs but never came across any of the info you present in the regular searches for rat care. This type of info only came into my presence when I typed in bleeding rat vagina.

Do you have any tips on helping her incision heal quicker? Vit E oil? Silver cream? Anything? My fear is we will have a moment lapse and she will get those stitches so the sooner she knits together the better our chances.

Thanks so much. You have no idea.

I would like to thanks you with a piece of jewelry I made. Go to www.szarkas.com and tell me the one you like. Email me at  and I will send it to you. You deserve it.

Ah the swine flu. I think my family had it before it was on the news. Just after we got better we drove across the states for business and everywhere we had been were where the first cases cropped up 0_o.

We figured we might have infected every starbucks from Austin to LA. eeeek

Dianne

Answer
Crazy glue has saved everything on my rats from opening an incision to putting an eye back in the socket (temp fix, sounds gross, but it stopped the bleeding and worked.....dont ask!)  Oy!

It stings, I dont like to use it, but if thats the only option if she should open up.....

I dont like the fact she lost the use of her back legs. This doesnt sound related to the surgery....it could be from pain but it could be something else. Its also not good she hasnt gone to the bathroom either.  You need to call this vet as soon as you can and let him know.  It could all be tied in to the legs not moving. I am worried now.  

Also, dont put anything on the stitches unless they get infected.

Oh and by the way, my husband is out of town too, for THREE WEEKS, so I got ya beat. I snoozed all day today....it was heaven, only to find I have about 15 unanswered questions here on allexperts to answer!

Also, your email doesnt show on here (privacy thing) so email me
at sandyscrittercity@yahoo.com.