Ferret vaccinations and adding new ferrets questions?

Question
QUESTION:   I have a male intact ferret that showed up at my house about 1 1/2 weeks ago. We had a pretty bad rain storm that just went through when we heard our dogs barking. We went out to see what was wrong and found a ferret underneath my vehicle. My mom held the dogs back while i got the ferret to go into one of my cats pet carrier. The ferret whom i now have named Hamilton is currently occupying one of my spare bedrooms. Now i live on 10 acres back in the woods and the fact that Hamilton didn't get killed by coyotes, hunting dogs, our dogs, or run over is a complete miracle. Most of our neigbhors either have boxers or hunting dogs and coyotes are in pasture/woods right across from our land. I have never had a ferret and know basically nothing about them, but i have been reading all the websites i can find and talking to people who own them, so i'm learning. When we first found Hamilton we thought of either rehoming or keeping him. But we decided to keep him, because we were afraid that his new owners wouldn't take care of him and it would be hard to rehome him without any knowledge of his background. We didn't try finding his own, because we are pretty sure we know whom he belongs to and they don't take very good care of their animals at all. He was VERY underweight when we found him. My mom and I took Hamilton to the vet a couple of days ago. I called around to vets (including my normal one) to find out who treated and neutered them. I didn't go to my normal vet because she will not neuter without descenting. I don't want him descented because should somehow he ever get outside his "stinky" smell make help safe his life. I plan on making sure he NEVER gets out, but nothing in life is ever for sure. I was able to find 3 vets within 100 miles who would neutered without descenting, but because i've never been to them i wanted to take Hamilton for his examination to which ever i chose to make sure i was comfortable with that vet to have him neutered there. When we brought Hamilton into the exam room the vets (a man and woman) couldn't believe all the ticks and fleas that was on him. We told them that we had seen them but was afraid to use anything just incase it would be harmful to him. The man vet said that in his 20+ years as a vet that he has NEVER seen ticks on a ferret. He also couldn't believe that Hamilton had survived on his own and just showed up at our house. He said that Hamilton must have on his own for a while. ALL the staff at the vets office had to come in and see Hamilton because they just couldn't believe we had found him. After everyone got done seeing him the vets examined him and said that he was 2-3 years old and also had earmite besides the ticks and flea. The woman vet and mom picked that ticks off with tweezers. I have to say that i was VERY proud of Hamilton. He lets them pick the ticks off and clean his ears without trying to bite, he just layed there and was good. Though he did shiver the whole time because he was scared and went poop on the table. The only time he acted like he didn't like what they were doing to him was when he was getting his nails trimmed. They were really long. The vet put revolution on Hamilton for the ticks, flea, and earmites. We also had him give Hamilton his distemper shot, but the vets told us that they don't carry on hand the rabies shot for ferrets because all the ferrets they see are inside only and don't need the rabies. The woman vet told me that they could order it if i wanted it.

 One of my questions is should i go ahead and have them give him his rabies? Also am i wrong to not get Hamilton descented? I ask this because when i called my normal vet told them that i didn't want him descented they told me that you are suppose to get both done. They made me feel like i'm being a bad owner from not getting him descented. But to be honest Hamilton doesn't "stink" unless he gets scared and if i'm a good owner and treat him right he won't get scared. Hamilton doesn't smell as bad as the ferrets i see in petstore that are already suppose to be spayed/neutered and descented.

 My last question is how to i tell if Hamilton is lonely? Hamilton doesn't really play much. I've been looking for signs of the play behaviors that i've read about. But Hamilton mostly just will rub and kind of slide across the floor. He will flatten himself on the floor at my feet and i'll pet him. I've gotten him to play maybe and minute or two with a jiggy cat toy ball. What i would like to know is how to tell if he is lonely? Now if i was to get another ferret(s) it would be after he is litterboxed trained, neutered and has recovered from it. Right now he has the spare bedroom to himself and when he wants to be left alone he goes into my closest. I have ordered a cage for him it a 41x25.5x57 so he has lots of rooms for him and any other ferrets i may get. I also ordered some 8 in1 ferret food plus some ferret blankets, bowls, toys, ferritone, bedding spray, and treats. Hamilton is currently eating felidae cat food which meets all the fiber and protiens requires and doesn't have the by products plus he LOVES it. The vet said that felidae was fine as long as it meet his food requirement. I plan on keeping him on felidae, but i want to also have him on ferret food just in case the store stops having felidae. Do you have any recommendations for litter besides yesterdays news, because the only place i can find that carries it is amazon and it costs alot for shipping. Would marshall ferret litter or critter litter be ok? I tried feline pine, but all Hamilton does it use it for digging. Sorry for the long questions and so much info but i wanted you to know as much background as possible plus what i'm currently doing just incase i'm doing something wrong and can correct it.

Thanks,
Felicia

ANSWER: Hi Felicia,

Let me just say that you are an angel for what you did for Hamilton. Ferrets do not last long when they are out in the big, scary world. It is a miracle that he made it to you and I am so glad he did.

Here is a good chart that I like to give the people that write in about new ferrets:

http://www.mdferretpaws.org/care/food_treats.html

It rates all the food that people feed ferrets and lists the first few ingredients and the breakdown of protein, fat, and other essential nutrients. I looked over it while I read your question and, as you will see by looking at the chart, Felidae actually rates better than 8-in-1 (unless you ordered 8-in-1 Ultimate).If you would like to (and it is a good idea to do this anyway) you can start mixing the 8-in-1 with the Felidae in case one of the foods ever goes off the market. When you get the other food, you can just mix a little bit in at first and then gradually mix a little bit more in as time goes in. When it gets to about half in half then that should be a good ratio. Ferrets imprint on the food they are given so it is good that he is eating what you gave him. Sometimes you can get really stubborn older ferrets who don't recognize anything but what they normally get as food. What you have to remember is ferrets are obligate carnivores. They cannot digest anything but meat. They cannot have fruits, vegetables, grains or sugars. You'll find some sources that say raisins are good treats for ferrets. Some fairly recent research shows that as little as four raisins can kill a totally healthy ferret. Please do not give Hamilton raisins, or any other dried fruit for that matter. They really can only have meat or a great source of protein (such as eggs). Some good treats to think about: any small prey (mice, chicks, etc. (you can buy these frozen)), insects, eggs, and of course, meat. Anything outside of this is not good for them and can make them sick. If they eat something they can't digest, it will cause a blockage in their GI tract and cause a very painful end for your fuzzy. Often, ferrets are the type of animal that will not show you that he is hurting until right up before there is very little time left to save him. This is why ferret owners are constantly paying attention to the behavior and habits of their fuzzies. Another treat that I see you have already mentioned is Ferretone. Ferrets love this stuff and it is great to use when you are clipping their nails.

As for the rabies vaccine - to my knowledge, there has never been a documented case of a ferret passing on rabies to a human. To that end, ferrets get dumb rabies as oppose to the aggressive rabies most other animals get. They would rather go curl up than attack you. That being said, you really do need to get the rabies vaccine. Let's say for an absolute worse case scenario, someone comes over to see Hamilton and Hamilton gets scared for some reason and bites them. They could go to animal control and demand that something be done. Now, it used to be that ferrets were taken, euthanized, and their brains were examined for signs of rabies. There has recently been a law passed that ferrets that are being investigated for rabies are taken for a 10 day quarantine and then returned. Neither of those things are something you want to happen so it is always better to be safe than sorry. Also, if you ever need to travel or board your ferret, proof of vaccinations are essential. On the plus side, a rabies vaccine for a ferret is relatively inexpensive. We just took our newest fuzzies in and they both got the vaccine for fifteen dollars each (not including the price of the wellness check up).

Something I noticed that you mentioned - pine bedding? This is not good for ferrets. Any kind of wood shavings for bedding or litter is not good for their respiratory tracts. It won't take long for a fuzzy to contract a respiratory infection if he is exposed to wood shavings in his cage. Yesterday's News is really one of the best types of litter out there. If that isn't in your budget, then there has been an upsurge in people using wood pellets (the kind you buy to burn in a stove) as litter. You can find wood pellets at hardware stores or a tractor or farm supply store. Forty pound bags are inexpensive and long lasting. It has a little bit of odor control and the pellets dissolve when they get wet. Another option is CareFresh bedding. This is what pet stores have in ferret cages a lot of the time. It isn't good as bedding because ferrets are burrowing animals and they like to dive in blankets and sweatshirts. It does have some absorption but it doesn't do anything for odor control really. You would have to be scooping it a lot, though so it may go pretty quick and be expensive to keep buying. Yesterday's News is the best litter to have, but you have several options. Critter litter would be okay but I have heard of it sticking to the pets that use it. I have never used Marshall ferret litter.

I think it is wise to refuse to descent Hamilton. Ferrets do come neutered/spayed and descented when you buy them from pet stores, but is by no means necessary. The "poofs" that a ferret who still has his scent glands does is stinky, yes, but it is nothing to get rid of the ferret for and it dissipates rather quickly, just like flatulence does in a human. Ferrets do poof when they get scared but also when they get excited so if Hamilton poofs once in a while, it does not make you a bad parent at all. Descenting does not really make any odor difference other than the occasional ferret poof. If you don't want it for Hamilton, no one is going to tell you that you have to get it and if they do, shame on them. It is a personal choice.

I am not worried about the fact that he hasn't been exhibiting those signs of play you've read about. He has been through quite the ordeal and it will take some time for him to realize he is safe now. Also, all ferrets have different personalities. Our oldest girl plays but she never dooks. It isn't that she is unhappy, she just isn't vocal. She just has a different personality. Our newest boy is the most vocal ferret we have ever come across. He will dook if you look at him the right way. It is just a matter of their personalities.

Getting him playmates is usually never a bad thing! Once you have ferrets though, you'll fall prey to what we call "ferret math". It is the unexplainable additions and multiplication to the number of ferrets you have at any given time. A single ferret needs to be out of the cage more and he needs to bond with you and have you around a lot. If you don't think you can be around as much as he needs, a playmate is a good idea. It will give him a partner in crime and it keeps them much happier to have a companion (other than their human, of course).

Also, Petsmart or Petco would probably have Yesterday's News for a relatively affordable price, just as a side note. Another thing about litter training - Hamilton will go in the litter box if he happens to be near the box when he has to go. Usually, a ferret needs to go right  here, right now when they have to go. I just wanted you to understand that even if he goes in the litter box the majority of the time, he will still have accidents here and there and sometimes, he'll go right next to the litter box as opposed to in it. This is just something ferret parents have come to accept and laugh at. Also, ferrets tend to aim for the hills as far as putting their butts right up against the top of the litter box causing his "business" to go off the side. Sometimes we parents do everything right and the poop still hits the fan.

Another thing: these treats that you got him. You will want to make sure they don't have a high sugar content because ferrets don't do well with sugar. Many commercial treats that are made for ferrets aren't even really food for them. You'll want to stick with meat treats and, like I said, keep the sugar to a minimum (if at all). The treats I mentioned above are good for ferrets. Avoid bedding that Hamilton will get his claws snagged on and watch to make sure that he isn't eating the fabric. This can lead to a blockage if he ingests the fabric. With the bedding spray you got, you'll want to make sure that it is made for pets and that it is pet safe. Something like the following would be good:

http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2769313&f=Taxonomy%2FPET%2F2

I'm sorry that I have bombarded you with information. I just want you to know everything you can know about taking care of this little miracle boy. Another thing that you might want to pick up is Ferrets for Dummies by Kim Schilling (the 2nd edition). It is an excellent resource and it will answer questions that you have and others that you didn't even know you have.

Obviously, if you have any other questions, please do not hesitate to ask me. I am so happy to help.

Congratulations on being a new ferret parent and I just want to tell you again what an amazing thing you did for Hamilton.

Sincerely,
Emilee Andrews

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: The ferret food that i ordered was the 8 in 1 Ultimate ferret diet crunchy 4.4lb. But i've been looking at some other food brands that i may try. I thought about ordering the Totally ferret but it has corn in the ingredients plus its almost twice the cost of the 8 in 1. And the 8 in 1 doesn't have corn or by-products. I looked and found the Zupreem Premium ferret food doesn't have the corn or by-products plus it is actually cheaper per lb than the 8 in 1. But i was wanting your advice on which one in your opinion would be better the Zupreem Premium or 8 in 1 Ultimate?

I did look on petsmart.com and ordered the Yesterday's News litter for ferrets. I didn't really look on petsmart.com before because i thought that they would charge for shipping because it was litter, but they only charge for cat litter. So i'm going to try the Yesterday's News for a while and see how Hamilton likes it and if he doesn't then we'll try something different. Hopefully he does because it was actually cheaper that the marshall and critter litter at the petstore. I was wondering if you had any advice to litterbox training Hamilton? I know to have his litterbox away from his food and bedding. And i plan on having his food and water bowls in the corners that his litterbox isn't in. And if he picks a different corner to use all the time that the one litterbox is in than i'll try moving his litterbox to that corner. But i was wondering if Hamilton doesn't really like the Yesterday's News at first if there was something else that i could mix with the Yesterday's News to get him using the litterbox and than slowing transition him over to only Yesterday's News? The cage that ordered for him is really big and i was wondering should i have just one litterbox or more? Also is was Feline Pine that i had tried, which it it not actually pine. It just smells like pine but is shaped like pellets and is designed not to be to be dusty and for cats so they don't get sick as easy and have breathing/upper respiratory problems. My mom has a persian and 2 himalayan/persiam mixes that have watery eyes and uri often because of the litter having dust. The vet said because of how their noses are shaped that their noses keep and build of that dust causing them to get sick. The vet said that the Feline Pine would help prevent the watery eyes and uri. I read on a couple different websites that Feline Pine was good litter for ferrets because it wasn't actually pine plus is wasn't dusty.

When i took Hamilton to the vet he weighed 3 lbs and the vet said he was a big boy. But Hamilton isn't fat and i can still fill his ribs really easily. When i first found him you could feel them very easily and tell that he didn't really have any muscle there. I've been watching his food intake so that he doesn't over eat, because when i first found him all he wanted to do was eat and eat, which was understandable. He takes his time now and doesn't try and gobble his food. Right now when i fill Hamilton's ribs i can fill them, but also fill where he is starting to build up muscle. I told the vet that i would bring him back in about 2-3 weeks and have him neutered and they said that that would be a good amount of time to bring him back. But was wondering if maybe i should wait a little longer? It's only been a week since he's seen the vet so he has another 2 weeks until when i said i would bring him into be neutered but is that too soon? I also plan on seeing about having them give him his rabies shot when they neuter him. Will it be okay for him to get his rabies shot at the same time he is getting neutered or should i wait? I only thought getting it done all at once plus he will be at the vets office for a few hours so if he does have a react he's there for them to monitor. Thanks for all the advice and sorry for writng back with another bunch of questions.

Thanks,
Felicia

ANSWER: Hi again Felicia,

Never apologize for writing in with questions! I am here to help and if there is anything I can do, never hesitate to ask me!

As far as the food goes, I didn't mean to give you the impression that corn cannot be in their food at all. I mean, it is better if it is not in their diet, but Totally Ferret is a high quality food. It isn't the absolute best you can have because of the by-products in it, but it is the preferred food of many ferret parents. If you are more comfortable feeding the 8-in-1 or the Zupreem, then by all means, especially if it is cheaper. Personally, we have never tried either of those brands. It seems that 8-in-1 is the better brand because in Zupreem, wheat is listed in the first few ingredients. Wheat isn't the best for them to have so, I would stick with 8-in-1. You could mix the two, if you like, since they are both high quality foods.

As far as your question about neutering and the rabies vaccine:

It is probably not too soon to take him to the vet in a couple of weeks. Ferrets don't like the vet, but he should forgive you quite quickly if you give him lots of extra love and attention! I *think* there would be no reason to worry if you took Hamilton to get his rabies shot, waited the half hour to make sure there is no allergic reaction, then he can go in for the surgery. Ferrets don't really seem to mind getting shots. I'm not sure they can even really feel it, since they don't really feel it when they get bitten during play with other ferrets. I think it is pretty much a minor annoyance to them. So, I see no reason why (but you should talk this over with your vet) it would be a problem if you were to bring Hamilton in, get the shot, wait to see if  there is an allergic reaction, then go in for the surgery. That is a question to ask the vet, but like I said I see no reason why it wouldn't be okay for them to do that in that order. If Hamilton goes in for surgery, then gets his vaccine after the surgery: that situation makes me a little nervous. If he is still groggy from the surgery, then it will be tougher to see any allergic reaction symptoms. I suggest asking your vet about it, but having the vaccine, then the surgery shouldn't be a problem.

With litter training a ferret, you have to remember that they aren't cats. They aren't programmed to go in a litter box. You might see Hamilton get his legs in the litter box and then go right off the side. Or he might get right next to the litter box and go. Ferrets have to go right here, right now when they have to go and if the litter box is far away, they won't bother. The key to litter training is patience and diligence. A tip: a ferret that just woke up from a nap needs to go to the bathroom, usually. If he lifts his tail and backs up, quickly put him in his litter box so he knows that is where he is supposed to go. Also, keep a little  bit of his poop in the litter box after cleaning it so he knows that is where he is supposed to go. Depending on the size of the cage, like if it is multileveled, you might want to think about putting a couple litter boxes in there. One on each level, for example.

Feline Pine, I've read, is quite similar to wood pellets, which are kind of "in vogue" for some ferret owners because wood stove pellets are cheap and you can get them in high quantities. I prefer Yesterday's News, just because it has the properties of the wood pellets (easy to clean up, good odor control, etc.) and since it is made of paper there is little to no dust. With wood pellets, they dissolve when they get wet so I would worry about the dust from that, but that is just my personal opinion. You could talk to another ferret parent who swears by wood pellets. I would just rather be safe than sorry, since wood shavings cause so many respiratory problems.

A healthy ferret is one that you can feel his ribs when you touch them, but they aren't easily visible. Also, when you run your hand down his back and hindquarters, his muscles should ripple.

All in all, you are being an amazing ferret mommy! You are asking all the right questions and what's more is you are really interested in giving him the best care possible.

Congratulations again and if you have any other questions you need to ask, feel free! That is what I'm here for, after all!


Sincerely,
Emilee Andrews

P.S.
Please do keep me updated on Hamilton's progress!

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I had Hamilton neutered on the 3rd of this month and he has been trying to play with my cats but they want nothing to do with him. So i plan on getting him a buddy or two (depends on if a pair is bonded). I was wondering how soon can i get him a buddy? The vet really didn't answer when i asked and i couldn't really find any other answers on any websites. Since Hamilton is estimated to be 2-3 years old should i wait a month or 2? Or can i get one in about a week or 2? I wasn't for sure how long it would take for his hormones to kinda level out so he won't be aggressive or anything like that. I plan on getting a ferret that is 1-4 years because i don't really want a baby because i'm afraid it would be too active for him and i don't want one that is very much older that him. Whatever ferret(s) i get i plan taking Hamilton to meet first to see if he likes them because he's the one that going to be their buddy and share a cage with. Is there any behaviors that should look for when introducing him with others to indicate that there really not match? Thanks again for all the advice and sorry for asking SO many questions.

Thanks,
Felicia

Answer
Hello again Felicia,

Please don't ever apologize for asking questions. It just shows me that you are really trying to do all you can for Hamilton and it shows me that there really are people that will dedicate time to learning about these wonderful animals. I would rather have you asking questions and learning than not asking questions and just winging it! Also, I am so glad to hear Hamilton is doing well. Another thing: please forgive me for now getting back to you sooner. I was called away this weekend for a family emergency and had no computer access.

Anyway, I would say to wait about a week from the time you had him neutered. Since it has been almost that, I would say just a couple more days. As long as his wounds from the surgery are healed and he has returned to his normal activity level, then he should be fine. If he isn't fully healed, I would wait until he is. Being fresh out of surgery, his immunities probably aren't back to 100% just yet. Even after he is healed and you start looking for a new kid for him to play with, you are going to want to make sure that your new little one has a full clean bill of health (and that it can be proven that he is healthy) just as another safety precaution.

Ferrets calm down with age, there is no doubt about that, but adult ferrets are just as mischievous (if not more so) as a kit (baby ferret) would be. That being said, kits are a little bit more work because you have to go through training and all that. If you are thinking of adopting an older one, (s)he should already be trained not to nip humans and use the litter box and so on, so maybe that is the right way for you. Also, adopting from a shelter, in my opinion, is always better because you are giving a ferret a new start and a new forever home, rather than going out and buying from a pet store. Also, oftentimes adopting a ferret, even a younger one at about a year old, is cheaper than purchasing one from a pet store so I think adoption is a very good thing to do!

It is a very good idea, even after initial introductions have been made before you bring home the new kid(s), to introduce them on neutral ground after you bring them home. That way, they can get used to each other outside the cage and it won't be a huge stress on either of them. When introducing them, the biggest signs you need to look for that mean they *probably* won't get along is: blood, poop, or excessive screaming. When they meet, you will probably see bottle brush tails (where the ferrets will poof out their tails so it resembles a bottle brush) and hissing. If you see an excess of either of these things, you will probably want to separate them and try again. Also, if one of the ferrets is being bitten and there is blood drawn or one of the ferrets literally has the poop scared out of them, then you should separate them and try again later. If any of these things happen, it doesn't mean that they will *never* get along. It just means that they are a little scared about meeting a new ferret. Some ferrets never get along and play well with others. You just have be observant and watch out for any of those signs. It is a good idea to have somewhere to put the new kid for the first night or two so he isn't just thrown in with Hamilton right away (unless they get along famously, in which case, you should just use your best judgement on housing them together right away). I'm afraid this might cause too much stress for both of the little guys. Another way to help with the transitions is to have Hamilton sleep with some of the new kids bedding and vice versa. This way, they literally have to live with the others' scent. That might make the transition easier on both of them.

Ferrets play hard. They roughhouse with the best of them, so don't be alarmed if they are biting and tackling and things like that. If you see any of the signs mentioned above, obviously they should be separated, but if they are just playing then no need to worry. You will probably see some fighting for dominance. One might drag the other around like a toy or one might tackle the other and things, but it shouldn't get violent. If it does, separate them and try again later. Also, just a warning, a spooked ferret might bite you out of fear, so be extra careful when handling him. If no one is being hurt, then just let them duke it out. Dominance should be established in a few days, maybe a week, and then they will be thick as thieves, hopefully!

Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any more questions. I really am here to help! Also, feel free to keep me updated on the little guy!

Sincerely, Emilee Andrews