continued visciousness

Question
QUESTION: Hi, Delores, Last night I took my now 13 week old male cocker spaniel puppy to work with a highly recommended trainer.  She was good.  I have tried what you recommended and it seemed to reduce the snapping biting, but the growling remained when I handle the puppy.  She showed me how to place him in a submissive position on his back in my arms when he growled and went through to steps to earn his freedom, one if he stopped growling he could gently roll to an upright position and two if he remained peaceful I could place him on the floor.  She observed his increasing snarling as she handled him effectively working with him until he got it.  She spent a good hour and a half with us and told me that if I were a less experienced owner she would not recommend keeping him, but that I may be a good person to have him because as he is demonstrating this degree of headstrong growling and snarling at this early of an age he will need a strong owner who does not abuse him physically and much work probably all his life.  I am feeling pretty low today.  This is not what I had in mind with a new puppy.  This morning when he got on my lap and growled when I touched him, I put him on his back and he went crazy angry, snarling and biting at me.  I held him quietly ignoring him as instructed and watched the news on tv. When he quieted down, I started to roll him over and he growled again, so again, I held him on his back and again he responded with a prolonged time of snarling, snapping, and growling.  I repeated this several times until finally he was quiet when I rolled him over and then he growled when I started to put him down and I went through the whole process again and finally after 20 minutes he remained quiet through the whole thing and was allowed his freedom.  How can I do this with my puppy for a long time?  I asked the trainer If he will ever be reliably sweet and she said it is unlikely given how young he is with this behavior.  And she didn't even see the worst of it.  He was growling and snarling a bit for her, but with me he goes all out bug eyed snarling and biting.  Should I put him down?

Sadly,
Karin

ANSWER: All this trainer did was teach you to alpha roll him?  Nothing else?

This is a 13 week old puppy and an alpha roll on its' own isn't going to cut it.

Before you "handle" him too much, you need to first of all, NOT allow him on furniture or on your lap.  You need to stare him down if he growls.  You need to do a LOT of umbilical cord training with him.

I feel like you tried what I suggested "once or twice" and gave up :)

However, if you don't commit to working with him, then you need to return him to the breeder.
Don't even think of putting him down.  This is entirely fixable in the right hands.  And fairly quickly.
Delores

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I did the staring down consistently for a week and as I said it turned the biting into growling, but the puppy never stopped growling.  I only did the umbilical cord with him one evening and will try that again.  The trainer also taught me to make him earn his food bit by bit for doing what I tell him. And she spent time teaching me a variation of clicker training with him to mark his good behaviors with the word "YES" and then give him a treat, which she told me should not be a single thing like food, but can be a pat on the head, a massage, a verbal praise, a piece of boring cracker, a piece of highly motivating meat, a toss of a toy, etc.  And you are right, this is a major commitment.  The trainer who saw his behavior was calm but firm and told me that he will always be a challenge his whole life and that in the hands of the wrong owner who hit and controlled him with force the puppy would become viscous and even dangerous.  I liked your analysis of him growing sweet eventually.  Is that realistic?

ANSWER: When you say you did the "staring" and it turned into growling...did you stop then?

Let's go over this again.
1.  Get down on his level.
2.  Be physically still
3.  Say NO firmly but quietly and eyeball him - do not lose eye contact.
4.  Continue until he breaks eye contact and turns away and stops growling.

The umbilical cord exercise needs to be done daily several times..maybe 15 minutes each time.
Do NOT talk to him.  Where you go, he goes.  That's it.

Do not turn his feeding time into earning points.  But feed him after his indoor umbilical cord exercise with his leash on.

The leash is a powerful tool.  Anxious dogs calm down - dominant dogs give it up.

Also..at his age he doesn't "know" biting hurts - if he does bite..squeal "Ouch".

I think you need to back up to Square One and stop the constant petting/cuddling/handling and let him work for it.  One thing at a time or you'll both be exhausted and confused.

And exercise him a LOT...get out on walks several times a day.  Tire him out.  A tired dog is a good dog.
Delores

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I think the situation may be unclear.  He growls when I pick him up. So I can't get down to his level and what he wants is me to stop restraining him, which the other trainer said must be earned by no snarl/growling.  Maybe he is a dog which will never want to be cuddled.  I feel I have not been following my own instincts because I found the growl/snarling so strange in a puppy.  I am coming to the conclusion that I need to do what feels right and with the guidance you and the other trainer have given me.  I think I should: 1) do the umbilical cord exercise once when I get home and once before dinner on work days and three times a day on weekends (15 min/time); 2) I think I should pick him up to pat him only if he doesn't growl.  In a way he is controlling me, but also if he want to be held he will learn not to growl.  3) He gets his last set of shots this weekend so I can finally walk him in the woods with my English shepherd (it is a fenced in area of about 7 acres with a trail for dog walking).  I will keep teaching him commands, sit, down, off, here, drop it, etc., and he will be getting socialized at the dog park and if I like the puppy kindergarten he will go there with me.  I think I need to chill.  I have gotten way way to worried about this.  He is a puppy.  Unfortunately, I am a snuggler with my dogs and so it is hard for me to resist the snuggling, but I think he is telling me he needs space.  I will continue to use treats when I put him on the counter for grooming.  And for handling of his ears and getting his face cleaned, so that he doesn't hate the experience.  My daughters pomeranian does not like to snuggle. She is a adult dog rescue.  I never pushed it on her.  And she has never snarled or been dominant or aggressive with people (she faces down our neighborhood giant dog like he is an insect, and fortunately he is sweet as can be and never left unattended).  Maybe I need to give the puppy a bit of time to desire cuddling.  Maybe because he was the last of the two puppies in the litter to go, he is a loner.  You know I have just always had an easy time reading dogs and this has been very different.  Thanks for all your help.

Answer
You can also try playing with him on the floor.  It seems it's when he's "up" (couch - picking up) that triggers him.  Lying and rolling around on the floor with him lets him crawl all over you..but initially try not to pet or hold..just roll away & get up.  Have a toy - make it a fun game.

Teach him the "Off" command so you can get him off anything without picking him up.
You do this by leaving a light, short leash on him and letting him get on the sofa - have a treat in hand and lightly tug him down saying "Off"...praise & reward.

Another idea:  Get a non-skid "mat" of some sort and feed him on the counter.  At his age he eats 4 to 5 times a day.  I'd pick him up by having your left hand grab his scruff and your right hand under his tummy - and let him start associating being picked up with food.
He'll probably growl/act out the first few times but they're smart and he'll make the connection pretty quickly.
When he's eaten - put a treat in his mouth and put him down quickly.
Delores