Dog on dog aggression - very specific circumstances

Question
QUESTION: This is a question about an aggression problem, but please bear with me...

We have two Beagles aged 19 months (female) and 9 months (male). They are neutered, well exercised, well socialised and (at an appropriate age) are involved in all sorts of activities including obedience, agility, flyball, beagle racing, swimming, heelwork to music. We only use kind, rewards based training methods. They are fantastic dogs. They get on brilliantly with each other, with other dogs (for the most part) and are a joy to live with.  They have their own blog if you want to find out more about them: www.fourleggedpal.com

The ongoing battle (which we seem to be winning) is maintaining control when the dogs are off-lead. Beagles need daily off-lead exercise to be happy and healthy, but it's extremely hard work providing this safely because of their tendency to run off on little adventures. In order to keep our dogs attention on us whilst off-lead we need to be interesting to them. We've done all sorts from playing hide and seek, recalls across a field between 2 people, running around the field dragging an old rag (always with a treat involved). Although what's working best is simple clicker training. We take the time to walk the dogs separately off-lead as well as together. During the separate walks we'll click and treat every time the dog looks at us or comes within 10 feet. It works like magic. They simply can't bring themselves to go more than a minute or two without running back to us. On walks in safe parks we can wander around for an hour or more with the dogs happily charging about at top speed and 'checking in' with us every minute or so. Every so often the'll take off on a mega chase around the trees and we'll loose sight of them for a short while, but within 2 minutes they'll come tearing straight back to us with waggy tails and happy faces (expecting a treat).

So all is going well, except....

The oldest dog loves training so much and gets so intense about it that if another dog tries to butt in she attacks it. She's never actually bitten another dog, but it's more than a telling off. She'll pounce on them and chase after them a little and we end up pulling appart a pair of snarling dogs. It's always bigger dogs so I hate to think what would happen if one of them retaliated. In all other scenarios she has impeccable manners around other dogs. The trigger is when she comes running to me expecting a reward (or the chance to earn a reward) and another dog runs over thinking that he'll try and get a treat off me (labs are very bad for doing this and it's hard to get rid of them quickly). She's absolutely fine with our other dog.

So to clarify - we can treat her and other dogs without any problem. But if I'm training her (or she *thinks* I'm training her) in a public place and she's very intent on getting her reward then she won't take kindly to another dog trying to muscle in.

We've been advised by more than one trainer simply to avoid the situation and never tell her off. And this makes sense. We don't want her learning that it's OK to do this, but strictly speaking she isn't really in the wrong from her point of view. But it's very difficult as it means we can't train our dog outside if there's any possibility that another dog might suddenly appear. Outside is where we really need to do the training as our problem is keeping our hounds close and paying attention.

We can avoid the situation most of the time by only working with the dogs when there are no other dogs around. But dogs can suddenly appear from nowhere and it's not easy to let our dog understand "right - game over" before the other dog gets to us. If I put our dog on-lead it can make matters worse. And it is a bit limiting if you can't train your dog if there are any other dogs around.

As well as avoidance I'd like some kind of strategy for dealing with the problem. Teaching her to look for me for guidance, or letting her get the message that I'm not going to let anyone steal her treats or spoil her game. Any ideas? For example, how exactly should I handle the situation if I make a mistake and she's intently waiting for her reward and a lab runs over and starts pestering me for treats?

ANSWER: Although you seem (by your report) to know what you're doing, you've made a grave error regarding "reward".  The dog, if properly conditioned to the clicker, will work for the CLICK alone; the dog should not be focusing on the food reward.  Scent hounds are especially difficult around resources and require a sophisticated approach.  You need, in the words of Karen Pryor, to "go back to kindergarten", and I can't see anything from here so I can't properly advise you.

Since you are in the UK, I strongly suggest you find a highly experienced behaviorist with a strong background in clicker training.  You may be able to find one at either of these sites:
http://asab.nottingham.ac.uk/accred/reg.php
http://www.apbc.org.uk/members.php

Until you have found such a professional, refrain from putting your dog into any situation where she will fail.



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks so much for the quick response.

I definitely wouldn't say we know what we're doing. We are pet owners and these are our first dogs. We have no problem with paying experts that can help us but I think it's important to have an understanding of the problem and the pros and cons of various solutions before putting yourself (and your dogs) at the mercy of someone who could potentially do damage. I'll check out the links you gave me and see if there's anyone near us.

The problem of aggression isn't associated in any way with clicker training. I've perhaps misled you over that. I simply mentioned clicker training because it's something that we tried very recently to keep our dogs close whilst off-lead and it worked very well (astonishingly well). But we're very new to it and are working from books. The aggression problem first reared it's head about 6 months ago and seems (to my untrained eye) to be directly related to food rewards that have become very valuable because of the excitement of the training/game associated with them. At about a year old our dog started to loose interest in playing with other dogs in the park and started to wander further afield. We stepped up the excitement of being with us in order to keep her close - that's when the problem started.

You have actually hit upon another problem that we have - we struggle to get our dogs to respond to any kind of non-food reward. Agility, obedience, flyball teachers all tell us to get our dogs more toy-oriented. We manage to get them going nuts for toys, but only if they get a regular food reward for their interaction with the toy. It doesn't need to be every time, but they need a treat most of the time. Just recently our flyball teacher told us that we were actually distracting our dogs with the treats as rather than obsessing over the ball all they were thinking about was getting to us for a treat, but if we withdraw the treats they just wander off for a sniff. If we try to wean them off the treats their interest in the toy (and their interest in us) wanes. They all tell us we're making a mistake here but as of yet no one has been able to tell us how to achieve the goal (at least, not in a way we understand). Few of them have worked with Beagles. Beagle experts (the ones we know) tend not to train their dogs much so they aren't much help.

So to clarify, I've mentioned that the experts we've consulted so far have simply told us to avoid the situation (and we can do this). Am I correct in thinking that you are suggesting that the right behaviorist could take things a step further and 'cure' the problem through clicker training? Or is it more the case that you think our heavy use of food rewards is creating the problem?

Should we be seeking help with an aggression problem or should we be seeking help with training our dogs to work for non-food rewards? I'm beginning to think the latter...?

Answer
Again: your training technique has most likely created this problem, and the fact that there are TWO dogs in this mix (your Beagles) may have aggravated the older dog's strong competition for resources.  Food should never be THE "reward", especially with a food driven breed like a scent hound.  Some dog breeds (which I will not name for fear of insulting the lovers of those breeds!) are very food oriented but are (frankly) not so smart (ok, dumb!) so this problem doesn't raise its very ugly head.  Beagles are far from dumb!  The "smarter" the breed, the more trouble they can get into, as you see!!

Dog to dog aggression (especially in this clear cut circumstance) is not aggression (per se).  "Aggression" that requires serious expertise is dog to human; dog to dog aggression is quite common.  Your dogs have made a strong connection between work and TREATS and that will take some undoing and serious reeducation.  The links I gave you are to working behaviorists in your country, and your country appears to have a MUCH better legal handle (through licensing and overseeing) of such professionals than here in the US!  One high profile "behaviorist" found here in the US on syndicated television would DROP LIKE A ROCK if such oversight was done through legislation; he'd be collecting garbage!  Both those lists were given to me by a working behaviorist in the UK.  You must, of course, (and I know you WILL!) do a lot of homework, ask for a lot of references, and appraise the behaviorist's position by telephone interview before hiring him/her.  Good luck, and please keep me updated!