Cichlid Breathing Heavy

Question
Ron,
No, the food is good and dry. Charlie (the fish) died last night. He seemed to all of a sudden get really bad. I'm assuming it was Bloat and his swim bladder must have been messed up, because he was trying so hard to live and he would swim really eradict and bump into rocks and such. And then he would be lying against a rock and the other fish would try and take nips out of him and then he would try to swim away. Well, I noticed on one of the times that he was very close to the front of the tank and lying by a rock that he was indeed very bloated. I called my fish store guy and told him all of the stuff and he said put some clout in the tank. Which is what I initally had wanted to do. I felt that this was the same thing that Patrick (the red empress) had died from. (see previous letter for info on that) So I'm getting the clout and trying to get the carbon out of the filter and stuff. And I looked back in the tank and Charlie was upside down and the other fish were already eating at him. I know that's just nature, but Man, I hated seeing that! So I got charlie out of there. Finally my husband got home and we went ahead put the clout in the tank after taking the carbon out and all of that. Because remember we already had two dolphin fish that were showing the same signs. So that's where we are now. And I'm very sad about Charlie's death. And it makes me angry because I feel like if I had trusted my instincts more and gone with what I thought that he would be alive. But anyway, the questions that I want to ask you are these. I know that the bloat can come from food that has gotten in the gravel and gets a fungus and then they eat it. So naturally people have told me not to overfeed, but the flakes can go to the bottom so fast even if you have given them hardly anything, there will still be some that hits the bottom. So what is the answer for this? Should I switch to pellets? or is there some other food that I don't know about that would be better? Also, I'm using small gravel. Should we go to something else? Sand perhaps? Or some other substrate that would be more beneficial? And finally for a whole other can of worms, no pun intended ... I have a pair of jewel cichlids who are getting ready to have babies. They had some before a few weeks back and we were completely taken by surprise and so we just watched the little things the first night but of course by morning the other fish had eaten them. So my question is If any of the fish eat the babies this time will there be chemicals from the clout that could hurt the eating fish? Or any complications from that whole situation?

Well, now that I have loaded you down with a million questions, I will close. But I wanted to let you know I think it's great that you are offering your services like this to novices like myself. It's very nice and I wanted to thank you.

Thanks Again,
Diane      
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Followup To
Question -
Hi Ron,
I have asked a question before and you were a lot of help.

I have three fish that I am having a problem with. But the problem is more with one than the other two.

Let me start by giving you some information I have a 60 gallon tank that we have had up and running since the begininng of June. We have all Cichlids.

Yesterday I noticed one of our fish (and I'm sorry I don't know his exact name, it's blue faced something)anyway I noticed he was breathing very heavy.This really alarmed me because the only fish we have lost was due to Malawi Bloat and that one was a Red Empress. So when my husband got home he looked at this fish and agreed with me that he didn't look bloated, but that something was definitely wrong. We did our water test and everything came back fine. We called and spoke to one of the owners of the fish store we go to and she agreed that the numbers on the test sounded good and that shouldn't be a problem. She asked if he looked bloated at  all and we told her no. She asked if he looked like he had been in a fight and was maybe beat up. And he didn't. Something strange that might be worth mentioning is he kept his dorsal fin up and erect the whole time. She then asked about our filteration. We have a Magnum canister filter and two bio wheels. And we have a wand that goes across the whole back for bubbles. So our fish person was at a loss and told my husband to scoop out some water so that it would make a bigger splash. And when we turned off their light in the tank to watch them for a while to see if someone was bullying him. I watched for the longest and no one was bullying him. But then this morning when I went to feed them, his color had really changed ... his face normally a light blue was almost black and there was even sort of black lines by his eyes. His body which is usually a pastel pink almost,  was darker and had his usually barely visible lines showing very clear and dark black. The darkest being the two lines closest to his head. When I examined him today there was some ragging to the anal fins, the other fins and everything else looked fine. When I fed them he didn't come over for anything and in fact when a piece of food went into his mouth he blew it back out. The other two who seem to be doing the same sort of thing only not to that extent are my moori, dolphin fish? What do you get from this? If you need to ask me something else please feel free. I really am attached to all of these fish, they have such personalities and I just dont' like it when there is something wrong with them.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks A Ton,
Diane      
Answer -
Hi Diane,
 You say that it is breathing heavy.  Is it doing so with the mouth open?  

 I will assume the answer to that question is yes (i.e,. the fish is not mouthbrooding a mouthful of eggs, in which case the mouth would remain closed even though it would appear to be breathing heavily).

 Is there any chance that your fish food got wet (I mean the fish good in the can or container that you keep it in)?

-- Ron
  rcoleman@cichlidresearch.com
  Cichlid Research Home Page <http://cichlidresearch.com>  

Answer
Hi Diane,
 I'm sorry to hear that Charlie died.  However, it is unlikley that Clout would have saved him at that point.  Clout is basically a very harsh mixture of a whole bunch of stuff -- its sort of like setting off a bomb with the hopes that you kill the bad stuff.  It also kills a lot of good stuff, and can also kill fish itself.
 It is fine if a little food sits on the bottom for a few minutes but it shouldn't sit there for more than that.  If you look in the tank about 10 minutes after feeding and you see fish food anywhere, then you are feeding too much.  

  The size of your gravel isn't a problem.

  The issue with the baby jewels isn't a problem. If there is Clout in the water it will already have absorbed into everything in the tank so it won't matter if anybody eats a baby soaked in Clout.

-- Ron
  rcoleman@cichlidresearch.com
  Cichlid Research Home Page <http://cichlidresearch.com>