Mushy cecotrope stool solution difficulty

Question
QUESTION: One of my buns has a problem with unformed mushy and sometimes runny cecotropes which I find in the morning. I have read your http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html and my also talked with my vet who told me to give only hay and water for a week, and if that doesn't work, then I need to come in.
I have always given good oxbow and organic hay, but I also give them wonderful greens from nearby farms and organic stores. I also had been giving them apple and banana. Since reading your article I stopped all the fruit, I give more hay, and I stopped greens in the morning and only give a tiny amount in the evening which I give wet with pro-biotics powder sprinkled on them. It is extremely difficult for me to totally stop all greens because I have 4 buns and they see when the other get it and they are also in pairs. They are used to mealtime routines and they ask and get excited at those times, so I easily break down when they ask. I have often also been continuing to give one inch of carrot.

The problem is that, although the mushy stool has become a lot less and there have also been days with nothing, it just doesn't totally go away and today was suddenly a lot more again.
She is eating a lot of hay and drinking water (also with pro-biotics in it), and I didn't give more of anything yesterday, so I just don't understand why it was worse today).

I was giving it time, and I had thought it was getting better, but maybe not.
Do you think it is necessary for me to do the really strict hay and water diet... or maybe more pro-biotics... or maybe something else?
I want to try everything that could work before dragging her for a 1 hour trip to the rabbit specialist vet.
She is the only bun out of my 4 buns having this problem and it has been a while. I believe she once had it last year also for a short time, but it went away on it's own.
Her energy at the moment is great, better than before. She always eats well and has no other problems that I can see.

I will welcome any help or tips for this.
Thank you in advance.

ANSWER: Dear Jacqueline,

Your bunny appears to be suffering from chronic cecal dysbiosis, a condition not uncommon in rabbits for several reasons.  You can read more about it here:

www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html

Note that the most common reason for this condition is incorrect diet.  You can check here to compare what your bunny is getting with what is a healthy diet that promotes intestinal health:

www.bio.miami.edu/hare/diet.html

But it sounds to me as if your bunny's diet is fine, and this is NOT the problem.

Cryptic health problems also can cause stress, and this can trigger GI slowdown in rabbits, resulting in cecal dysbiosis and messy bottom.  Anything from urinary tract infection, arthritis, or dental problems may be responsible.  Dental problems are especially common triggers of GI slowdown, especially in short-faced rabbits such as lops and dwarfs.  You can read more about this here:

www.bio.miami.edu/hare/dental.html

You have not mentioned whether your vet has checked your bunny's molars, but only a very experienced rabbit vet will really know what to do if this is the problem.  I am not sure what the situation is with respect to rabbit vets in France, but I hope you can find one here:

www.rabbit.org/vets

In the meantime, here are some tips for keeping him clean until you can get him to a rabbit-savvy vet:

www.bio.miami.edu/hare/buttbath.html

I hope this helps.

Dana


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hello Dana,
Thank you for your answer. I do plan to go to the vet soon, but it will still over a week before I will be able to go. I do have a rabbit-savvy vet but I still would like to know what you think from your experiences, which I believe are greater than my vet, since she is very young. Ideally I would still love to be able to resolve this without having to make a trip to the vet and give meds which will stress my bun so much.

My bunnies teeth were checked last may, but I do not believe it is a dental problem, because I watch her eat and she puts down hay and everything else fast and with no problem. She is also having no problem with her normal poopies. There are tons of them and they are a good quality. They are not as large as her partner, but they are not too small either.

I guess I am starting to wonder if she has some other problem like parasites or another kind of infection, but I don't know if there would be other symptoms with those kind of problems. I do not see any other symptoms of illness in her. She has a good energy, eats and poops (normal poops) well, and drinks and pees normally. She does tend to stress about things more than my other buns though. If there is an odd sound or movement, she will easily startle, thump or freeze even though she has a very safe and loving home since over a year. (she is a rescue bun, but she was very young).

Basically my main question is whether, from your experience, I should continue pushing the mainly hay and water diet with only a small amount of greens and a 1-2 inch carrot per day, or if you think it is time to start looking at the possibility that it is another problem than diet.

I admit that I gave her way to many greenies this summer and she was also having 2 wedges of apple and a tiny piece of banana every day. I have stopped all that for at over 2 weeks now and even though the mush is less, it still happens almost every morning and it is very mushy and sometimes quite liquidy.

Do you think 2 weeks is not enough time to make a change?
Or maybe I need to be even more strict with the diet?
I did expect to see more of a good result by now, but maybe it takes longer?
Since I have been giving pro-biotics a lot also, she is starting to get more and more hungry since the past 3-4 days. She is starting to beg for food and it is getting harder for me to say no.

After another week and a half I plan to make an appt at the vet anyway, but until then I would appreciate any more info you can give me from your experience and knowledge.
Thank you!
Jacqueline

Answer
Dear Jacqueline,

Without knowing your bunny personally, it's very difficult for me to guess whether her problem is dietary, emotional, or medical.  If she is easily stressed and nervous, this could certainly contribute to the problem.  But don't rule out teeth.  Molars can develop spurs any time, and hers were checked more than half a year ago.  Molar spurs are by far the #1 problem causing cecal dysbiosis in rabbits receiving a healthy diet.

If you have been giving her the hay-only diet for two weeks and not seen a change, then I have my doubts that her problem is dietary.  You might ask the vet about trying probiotics (use ones made for horses), or even a day or two of cholestyramine resin to adsorb irritants in her intestine that might be causing chronic inflammation.  Just breaking the cycle of inflammation can help.  A dose of barium might also be something to try.

But in my experience, there is usually an underlying medical condition that's at the root of this.  Bloodwork might help.  But I seriously would consider the teeth.  Remember that rabbits are hypsodonts:  their teeth grow continually throughout their lives.  So it is not unusual for a bunny who has perfect teeth at one time to develop spurs later.

I hope this helps.

Dana