Sick old rattie question...

Question
QUESTION: I have a two year old spayed female rat. She lives with a 1 1/2 year old male in a large well ventilated cage, which is washed and disinfected once a week. Neither of them have showed sign of mycoplasm infection, no sneezing or discharge. Yes, i realize she is old, but she was (seemingly) perfectly healthy 3 weeks ago. Hubby noticed she "wasn't walking right". I watched her closely and got her out. She seemed to me to be running around just as actively as ever but I did notice what seemed like a balance issue when she would clean her face. By the next weekend she was moving very slowly and the balance issue was more severe. She could only walk a few steps before falling over. She was still walking however, but quite slowly. I thought maybe she had a stroke. Within a few days she was dramatically slowed and I was feeding her baby food. This is the first time I noticed the dreaded red discharge from her nose and eyes, but still no sneezing. I took her to the vet. The vet said rat don't usually have strokes, but there was some sort of neurology problem because her pupils were very small. An x-ray showed some sort of blockage in her lungs. The vet said maybe she had pnemonia. She gave her anti-biotic and iv fluids. I am now feeding her the antibiotic and "Boost" which is a human nutritional supplement with a syringe. She is barely eating and not able to move at all. The vet isn't a rat expert. Am I prolonging her agaony? Do you think she could pull through this? Should we put her to sleep? If she could pull through the respiratory infection, I have no problem continuing to feed her with a syringe if she's had a stroke. However, if she is just slowling dying from mycoplasm infection with no hope of recovery, I don't want her to suffer.

ANSWER:
From the title of your question "Sick old rattie" I was thinking you were talking about an old rat, around 3 years old.   She is just 2, this is not the end of life age. She has time on her side yet. She is a senior rat that has probably been through menopause by now and may be starting to show signs of degenerative changes in the skeletal system. Rats used to live (in the wild) for about 6 months in the wild, mainly being killed by none other than human beings with the main cause of their death being the number one animal that is preyed upon by too many predators to name here.

However, you said the vet was not a rat expert, and there really is no such thing. What you would need would be an exotic vet that knows ab out rats and how to treat them.  You said that if she is slowing down due to mycoplasmosis infection with no hope of recovery, but in most cases there is hope of recovery with myco, depending on what organ it has affected, from lungs to the urinary tract, mycoplamosis is an organism that is not restricted to just the lungs. When left untreated or not treated properly, it can recur, causing further damage with each new attack. This is when lung scarring can occur which can be prevented if these general vets would either STOP pretending they know what they are doing by treating rats that they know nothing about except the basics they graze over in Vet school, and let the real board certified avian/exotic vets do their job.  

That said, I am going to ask if she is spayed or not.

Also, I will also say I agree with the vet it probably isnt a stroke but not because the vet said strokes in rats are not common, because they do occur, but because the onset was gradual as you explained the weight loss and other gradual changes. You said she is not eating, but can she hold things with her front paws?

I believe your girl may have a pituitary tumor and I stress "MAY" be one because this is of  course only an educated guess since it isnt logical that I can be totally accurate without actually having the rat physically present where I can touch her and examine her. I am gathering info from both you and the vet which by the way, the vet is simply going by what your telling him the rat symptoms are and since the xrays did not show anything really specific, this also doesnt mean much if there is something in the lungs. It could simply be an infiltration.   Anyhow with a pituitary tumor, the onset is usually gradual, and the rat may display gradually  the following symptoms:

Weakness that is gradual.

Sometimes this is over a period of time, from a few days to a few weeks. You may notice they seem clumsy and lack coordination. They seem stiff in their legs and sometimes  act as if they are having a problem walking. This all may be gradual as stated above. As the tumor progresses and presses on the nerves with one of them being the 8th cranial nerve that controls equilibrium, the rat may even develop a head tilt and begin to walk in circles or spinning around and around. They may appear as if they have some type of palsy. This also occurs with ear infections in rats often leading to a misdiagnosis esp if the vet is not experienced with rats.  The key sign that can make the difference between a pituitary tumor or an ear infection and that is when the rat cannot hold their food in their front paws. They cannot grasp and hold the food and also have a hard time chewing and swallowing.

You can feed her baby food and let her lick it from your fingers and also from a flat dish.  

Can she hold stuff with her front paws??

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you so much for your very fast response!

First, she is spayed, second she can't hold anything in her paws anymore.

While she can move her front and back legs, she can't support her weight at all and simply lies on her side. I flip her from one side to the other and mover her legs and fingers so they won't stiffen up. I've also been patting her in an effort to loosen up her lung congestion cuz my mohter always said to do that for pnemonia.

What you describe is exactly what happened to her...a gradual slow down and loss of balance until she is to the point now she can't walk or support any of her weight. I can only get her to eat small amounts of liquid through a syringe. She does seem to have a hard time swallowing also and I have to feed her VERY slowly and still some of the liquid drips out of her mouth. If it is a tumor, can it be treated?

As far as the repiratory infection, I don't know if it's myco, pnemonia, or what, but her eyes are dripping red discharge constantly. She isn't labored in her breathing or wheezing/sneezing...

Thanks again for your help.



ANSWER: Just what I did not want to hear.  :(

She probably has a pituitary tumor. The only real thing you can do is feed her (baby foods, let her lick) and perhaps see if you can find the vet to help her quality of life by giving her steroids to help with inflammation on the tumor.  She probably has little time left. I absolutely despise telling you this. I am shocked she has this still even though she is spayed but sometimes it does happen.  How old was she when she was spayed? Usually to avoid both mammary tumors and Pituitary tumors spaying is to be done young and I mean young as in 3 to 5 months of age.

The red discharge is called porphyrin and it is seen when the rat is very stressed from illness and anxiety.  You can see my site for photos and more info on it here:

http://www.freewebs.com/crittercity/bloodynoseandeyes.htm

I am so sorry and I PRAY I am wrong but my gut tells me I am right and my heart aches for you and your little girl.  Should she get worse, euthanasia is the kindest action. Be sure the vet understands PROPER procedure when euthanizing rats. They must be under anesthesia and completely unconscious and unaware of any stimuli and after that the intracardiac stick is done but ONLY when the rat is totally unconscious or it will be painful and is also illegal and inhumane to do it any other way anyhow. I hate to discuss this with you but it is vital to make sure the vet follows this or do NOT let him touch your rat.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Sandra, I can't tell you how much I appreciate all the help from you. I hadn't realized you had a web site, it's the best one I have seen, I have learned so much. Although I hate what you are telling me, I think you are absolutely right about her condition.

You know I have always had male rats because I knew the females were so prone to the tumors, which is why we had her spayed very early, she was probaly around 3 months old when she was spayed. And we take such good care of our ratties I was sure she would live to a ripe old age.

Well, we are just going to baby her as much as we can, she even sleeps with me at night. If we think she starts to suffer we will take the kindest action. And I am grateful you described the procedure to me as I have never had to do it and would not know what the proper way is. I will make srue they do it this way and would insist on being with her. My hope is that she will go quietly in her sleep while snuggled up with either me, hubby or one of the kids.

Me and Ruby (that's her name) both thank you, everyone around me just thinks me and my family are so crazy for being so attached to a rat. Even my dog and cat owning friends some how don't think we could love our rats as much as they love their pets. But the truth is they are like dear friends, and we only get them for such a short, short time...

Bless you for the work you are doing, Sandra! Take care!

Carrie

Answer
Hi Carrie


Spaying at 3 months of age usually does stop the growth of mammary tumors up to 80% and also helps with pituitary tumors, although I do not think that the percentage of prevention of PTs is as high as it is for mammary tumors. I wish and hope and pray I am wrong....but even the antibiotics did not help her so this makes me feel more certain it is the tumor.  Please let me know how things go. I know just how you feel about your rats because I am the same way. When I lose a rat and I am sad and crying and someone says to me "Oh come on, its JUST a RAT!" I ask them if they love their dog and if they ever lost a dog or cat and they almost always say YES.  I ask them if they cried when their dog or cat died and they say OF COURSE. SO I tell them that when my rat dies, it is the same loss that they feel when they lose a dog or cat and its not fair to judge just because of the rats size etc...  That usually shuts them up.