Mice sneezing; temperature changes

Question
QUESTION: Dear Natasha,

1 week ago I got 2 more mice to add to my existing 2. The ones I got look like sisters as they are both tiny and have the same pattern in their fur. I got them from a pet shop which I think they were selling as "feeder mice."

They all are getting along fine but recently I noticed my smallest new one was coughing and sneezing. She always rubs her nose and when she does that, it makes a congested sound. I am worried that she may of spread a "virus" to the other mice because now they all have some sought of problem. Here are the symptoms in each of the mice:

MOLLY (eldest): hunched back
BLOSSOM: patches of no fur. Easy to tell because she is an albino.Rubbing her nose and slightly shaggy fur
PEBBLES(one of the new ones):rare sneezing, rubbing her nose
HOLLY (smallest new one): sneezing coughing sound, rubbing her nose, congested sound when she does so.

Please tell me if this can be fatal for them all.

Also, since Pebbles and Holly have turned up, Molly has doubled her weight. She is constantly eating. I am really worried about her. she is almost a year old.

I am also worried because my room gets hot during the day, and really cold at night. I am worried if this is too much of a temperature change for them to handle. Molly tends to sleep out of their nest in the hot temperatures (She is black which may collect the heat).I worry that maybe she is overheating. It is about 30 degrees in the day and about 7 to 18 over night.

Please get back to me ASAP because I am really worried,
Olivia

ANSWER: Dear Olivia,

You are right to be worried about your mice. They have respiratory infections and, yes, mice can die from that. They have to be treated. They should really all go to a vet.

Yes, it is bad for them to have that temperature change. They should  *never* be in temperatures over 24. And the lower temperature should *never* be lower than 16. And even those temperatures should not be within a short amount of time. This is definitely a large factor in why they have gotten sick. Mice always have a very low-grade case of a respiratory illness called myco. Any stress can bring it on. Hot or cold temperatures cause stress by themselves; an oscillation between them is very, very stressful.

The myco causes the sneezing. Being sick in general causes the hunched back (very very sick mouse), and can cause the shaggy fur-- she is too sick to wash herself (very, very sick mouse). The patches of no fur could be caused by mites. Mice also always have a low-grade case of mites, which also doesn't bother them until they are stressed. Your critters may have both.

Can you possibly bring them to a vet? They are all in serious danger of dying now. My solutions are not at all as good as what the vet can do. I beg you, on the mice's behalf, bring them to a vet!!


The following post gives you a lot of information about it and what to do if you *can't* get to a vet (and I do understand this). It describes both how to treat for myco and for mites. It is unfortunate to have to treat for mites when the poor things are already stressed and sick, so I am going to recommend you wait a few days. If everything looks better after three days except Blossom's fur, I recommend treating all of them and doing the entire regimen I describe. Again, the vet can do it better-- they can treat mites in a way that is not stressful and can be done immediately.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Mice-3824/2011/8/itchy-sneezing-mouse-possibilities.h


If they are still sneezy/chattery after three days on Tetracycline, or on Baytril alone, they probably have a secondary infection and need to be treated for that. Again, the stress of the temperature plus the stress of the severe myco leaves them in grave danger of a secondary infection.


So you are left with the problem of the temperature. I'm guessing you simply can't heat and cool the room? If you can, it may be a matter of life and death, as you have seen. Can you put them someplace better? If you can't, let's see what you can do to at least heat and cool the cage.

In severe heat with no A/C, the main thing you can do is to at least cool the bottom of the cage and give them something to curl around to keep cool. Get as many ice packs as you can. Get a large one if possible that you can put the cage on; or several small ones. Get twice as many as you need, because they won't freeze again fast enough to use them the next night. Get some soft ones, if you can find them, and stuff them into glass jars. The problem with mice is they will nibble on anything, so you can't put any ice packs of any sort *in* the cage unless it is in glass, because they will nibble and both poison themselves and flood the cage. Otherwise you might be able to freeze water in glass jars-- test this with the jar in a ziplock bag because I'm not sure if it will break. Don't fill it all the way up because ice expands. The cage should be on ice packs all day. There should be a portion of the cage not on ice so they have a place to go if they find it too cold. The glass jars should be wrapped once in a small piece of cloth and set in the cage for them to wrap themselves around. If you can't get something in glass, then fill a couple of mugs with ice. You won't need to wrap cloth around them unless they are glass. Whatever you do, *don't* give them a direct fan. Even in the heat, a draft or breeze can make them more susceptible to illness. of course don't have the cage in the sun, and keep the shades down/blinds closed.

In severe cold, the cage should be set on a hot water bottle. Again, there should be a portion of the cage not on the heat, in case it gets too hot. Also give them glass jars with boiling water, again wrapped in cloth. And wrap the cage in towels to try to keep in the heat.

It doesn't sound like a very good situation for mice.  I don't like to say this, but if it isn't possible to ameliorate the situation, I don't recommend getting more mice. I  hate to say that. But it sounds like a terrible situation for them.

I hope you can find a solution more like a heated and air conditioned room. I wish your little mice the very best recovery.

squeaks,

Natasha





---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Natasha,

I live in Australia where it is spring right now. The temperature problem for me occurs in Spring and Summer. I do have a airconditioner in my room but when I put that on it gets very cold. Do you have any other ideas about the temperature problem because the ice packs won't work because of the structure of the cage.

I intend to bring them to the vet as soon as I can. It may be on Monday. If they start to get worse before then, what do I do? Would my local vet have tetricyline?

Also, for Molly, do have any ideas why she has doubled her weight-and is still eating constantly? They are eating a Rat and Mouse mix from the pet shop and some bird seeds. Is this diet fine? I rarely give them them cheese as it is fatty.

I will up date you everyday.

Thank you Natasha,
Olivia

ANSWER: Dear Olivia,

Sorry that I missed the weight question. I guess I got involved in the rest of the question.  Sometimes mice do gain a lot of weight as they become fully mature adults. It can be a medical issue-- it was for a mouse of mine once (stomach tumor)-- but that is unlikely. Some mice just get fat. I've known people to try to keep that from happening but it's not easy and I don't see the point. As long as she eats only healthy food, has a wheel, and doesn't get fat enough that her belly drags, I wouldn't worry. You will be going to a vet soon anyway, so they can help alleviate the worry. Because mice are also prone to psychological issues, you can't completely rule out a reaction to the new mice, but luckily there are no mouse magazines telling mice that emaciation is attractive.

If you can't get to a vet till Monday, you definitely need to treat them with Tetracycline if you can get it at a pet store. As prey animals, mice don't show signs of illness until they are very sick-- often deathly sick. While some mice may have a respiratory chatter their whole lives, others will die of it after a few days. I can't guarantee your mice will survive that long-- and they feel miserable.

The directions for tetracycline are in the post referenced above.

When you mention your local vet, do you mean you have to wait till Monday to see someone who knows mice, but have access to an inexperienced vet before then? The inexperienced vet ought to be able to ask an experienced vet what medication and how much to give a mouse without having to examine her. While they can't guarantee exactly the right dose, it's better than not treating the mice. It is possible to get antibiotics through a pigeon supply shop, and in fact you may be able to get the stronger ones like Baytril, or at least Doxycycline or Amoxicillin, which is probably what your vet will give you, possibly in combination. Find out if you have access to a pigeon supply store and if you do, let me know and I will help you decide what to order. But if you need to get it quickly you will have to pay a lot for shipping. I know we are on quite different time zones, but I will try to check these questions often in the next day in case I can help you with this. I know where to do it in this country but I don't know if they ship overseas; and I can't imagine it could get there very quickly.

As for the temperature issue, you don't explain why the ice packs wont work, but I am guessing the issue is a wire bottom over a tray. Or perhaps a cage you can't lift. In this case, try to cover the sides of the cage with ice packs, wrapped in a very thin towel if the bars are wire. This sounds pretty awkward, but maybe you can tie it on. However, if the A/C is cold and not adjustable, it may still be better for the cage to be in a cold room, with heat protection, all the time. That's better than getting too hot and too cold. You can do the same with the hot water bottles-- wrapped in a very light towel due to chewing (not your favorite towel!). You will need to change them often. I had a situation once where I went through a winter with no heat (I had what we call a "slumlord") and the temperature went down as low as yours. I wrapped the mice in towels and hot water bottles and changed it every 6 hours. I myself got sick repeatedly, so I can see it happening to the mice as well.

I can't think of any other solution right now. But I do think it isn't a very good situation for the mice or you. As I said, maybe no more mice. I hate to do that to anyone, of course. Everyone should have mice!


I wish them the best.

squeaks,

Natasha





---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Dear Natasha,

Great news! I have figured out how I can stop the temperature changing too much (hotness). Molly was feeling much better!I've solved that!

We luckily got an early appointment in at the vets TODAY! Luckily, the vet was very expirenced with mice and the matter. She said yes, the have mites and that they are more than likely to have an upper respirtory infection. Tomorrow we will go back and get the antibiotics for both of the problems. She said the antibiotics could kill the small mice because they are not strong enough yet, but we're going to try. I am going to do the paintbrush method of putting the antiboitics on it and feeding it to them individualy.

I will get back to you on there progress everday!

Thanks for your GREAT help Natasha! I really really appreciate it.

I'll get back to you,
Olivia

Answer
Dear Olivia,

I'm so glad. I'm glad about the temperature and that you had a vet diagnose the mites. I couldn't be sure of that and didn't want you to treat them unnecessarily. It's wonderful that your vet knows mice.

What medications are you getting? And I have never tried to use a paintbrush; have you got a flavored version of the meds? Let me know how that goes. I happen to be holding a mouse right now (typing is awkward) who sure wishes I hadn't had to force feed her 2 yucky meds twice a day for ten days-- twice! On day 1 the first time she bit me (which is rare, but understandable) but by day ten she stopped struggling. I don't think I could get her to eat even something yummy out of the cage. Mice learn what you teach them, and I don't teach them to eat outside the cage.

Interestingly, in Germany, where my vet was a mouse specialist, he just gave the mouse one shot of antibiotics and she got well. He gave her a shot of vitamins as well. I wish they would do that here (and where you are).

I hope they feel a lot better within a few days. They probably will. But if it is a ten day course of antibiotics you have to continue the full ten days.

squeaks,

Natasha

PS Constantine, now on my shoulder, send well wishes. She says she knows what it is like to feel horrible and have to take medicine, and she feels for your mice. Squeak!