Helicobacter, failing months later.....

Question
QUESTION: my ferret had helicobacter in september, now five months later, he is eating again, drinking, again, and he does poop normally but its not always perfect colored. He was wlaking a lot the past few weeks but I noticed he always  curls up in a ball and sleeps. I got another ferret yesterday because i thought he was bored, and i played with the original ferret before taking the new one out to play but he is still sleeping even with someone to play with. Is ther a long recovery time after helicobacter? He is still really sking and i can see his ribs. I bought ferret-vite to fatten him up. Is he still sick or stil recovering? I must say he seems much better than last month but not great still. Thankss

ANSWER: Hi Christine & ferrets:

Sorry to hear your little guy is still feeling bad. That's not at all unusual. The ferretvite just is not nourishment for him.  Helicobacter affects his ability to absorb nutrients and it also affects his appetite. Ferretvite is a great 'extra' vitamin for healthy ferrets, or you can even add it to the below food, but given with your ferret's normal food, it will do nothing really for a ferret with helicobacter. Your ferret is very very lucky to have lived this long existing on ferretvite and probably a little dry food now and then. Most likely the dry food, if and when he is eating it, is upsetting his tummy, which would explain why he is staying in his bed staying curled in a ball and not interested in playing. If you change his food, I think you'll see a huge difference in his energy level. Though he may *never* be as energetic as a ferret who has never had helicobactor, he will come around and play with his new friend once his tummy is feeling better.

The 'magic' you are looking for is a food you can get at any vet's office and it's called Hill's A/D Feline canned food. Warm a couple tablespoonsful in the microwave, then add a couple tablespoons of water to make a nice gravylike thickness. Get your ferret used to eating this by putting him on your lap, dipping your finger in the warm A/D 'soup', then touching his nose/mouth area. You can even put your finger in behind his canine teeth (the long ones) and he will lick it. It will take a few times, but he WILL get used to it and even beg for it once he does. He should have this two to three times a day if possible - plan to finger feed him in the beginning at mealtimes. Once he has gained his weight back in a few weeks, you can change him to Hill's I/D, which is lower in fat content, yet still easy on his little tummy. This will be what he eats probably for the rest of his life.  

I have a seven year old that had helicobacter as a baby when he came to me and he still gets this twice a day even in his old age. I have him down to twice a day because he is just not active enough to burn the calories and he's overweight. You will just need to monitor his weight and not let him get too heavy to play. He will always need at least to be fed morning and night, even if you make those meals smaller as he gets older. He may even get a bit of his appetite back and eat some kibble.

I recommend Totally Ferret for it's easy on the tummy meat ingredients. Again, if this isn't what you feed already, it will take some getting used to, any food changes are to be made slowly, just a few kibbles at a time each time you fill the food bowl add a few more of the new food and a few less of the old food.  Soon you will feed 3/4 of the old food and 1/4 new food, then several weeks later you will build your way up to 1/2 and 1/2 and so on.  Just be aware that you can cause tummy problems for your new ferret if you change foods too quickly, so do be careful to change very slowly and over about two months period of time.

I hope you'll follow through and be sure to get the A/D as soon as you can. I surprised and disappointed that your vet didn't tell you back in September that this would be a lifelong problem of digestion that your little guy would probably suffer from. If you have any doubts whatsoever, please please take your little one to the vet and let him prescribe the A/D - it is a prescription food, but most vets, especially in the case of helicobacter - expect digestion problems and will approve sale of the A/D and/or I/D when their weight is regulated.

Best of luck and I hope and pray you can get the A/D quickly enough that he doesn't yet lose his battle to helicobacter. Please please don't let him suffer any longer?  I hope you will give me an update in about 10 days or so and tell me what a huge difference in his whole being you see - my thoughts and prayers are with you and with him.

Sincerely,

Jacquie Rodgers

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: your answer is very helpful!! I was looking for the food online, and it is really expensive. $40 dollars for one can is insane, is it cheaper at the vets office or anywhere else? Im interested in getting Bailey happy and healthy again but its alot for me to afford. I also wanted to say that he eats a lot of his kibble. It is the 8 in 1 ferret diet. He seems to like it, but you said its probably hurting his tummy .(he grinds his teeth a lot and my vet said thats why)will the totally ferret food be better for him? If i feed him totally ferret food, and for a short time give him the a/d until he gets a little better would that be okay? or will he need a/d all of his life? Thank you soooo much for letting me know about that food. Im going to hopefully try it out for  him. thankss

ANSWER: Hi again Christine & sweet little Bailey:

The food usually runs about $1.60 a can at my vet's office and they are very expensive compared to just about everywhere else, so I'm thinking the price you were looking at may well have been for a case of 48 cans - if so, that's a great price!  (Would you write again and give me a link where you found it please?) A big ferret may eat into the third can in a week. I give mine about 1/3 can per feeding. Hopefully that will give you a better idea of the money you're talking about - hopefully not a reason not to feed it. It could well mean the difference between life and death for little Bailey.  Be sure to keep unused portions covered and refrigerated until used..that's really really important. Then be sure to warm it up before giving it to him; the warm soup will relax his little tummy. Stir with your finger just before giving it to him just to be SURE there are no hot spots in it from the microwave. Cold soup will tend to give them tummy cramps too...so a bit more than lukewarm is nice for a ferret.

Once he gets his weight up and is feeling stronger - is playing again and acting more  normally, you can try a different "soup" if you like, but he will require soup of some kind on a daily basis probably for life. I'm just sick that your vet didn't tell you this sooner! I'd definitely consider finding another vet unless you really didn't follow up like you should have; this should have been stressed to you that he would have an impaired ability to absorb nutrients in his food from that time on. The only really effective way to treat it is the A/D for skinny sickly ferrets and I/D once they reach a good weight and energy level.  There is another liquid soup MIX you can try - later, after he has put his weight back on and his energy is back. That's the Uncle Jim's Duk Soup Mix. It's a powder you mix with warm water.  If you get Bailey used to both A/D, I/D and Uncle Jim's, it gives you quite a nice choice - especially nice if you're traveling or have a really busy lifestyle.  The only *must* is the A/D until he is levelled off weight-wise and has his energy back. You'll be surprised how quickly he will pick back up for you. It sounds like he's not far from losing his battle from what you describe. Hope you can get the A/D first thing tomorrow morning and get him going on the road to getting well.  I'm rather surprised, actually, that he's hung on this long with just the Ferretvite and kibble.  

You didn't say what kind of food you are feeding, but it's a good idea to keep a dry kibble available; he may want to nibble on it in addition to his soup feedings.  I'm partial to Totally Ferret because their formula is made specifically for ferrets, whereas some other ferret foods are actually chinchilla food or other pet food tossed in a bag and marked 'ferret food'. Totally Ferret was formulated and is made specifically for ferrets and their special dietary needs. My kids eat a mixture of three foods, the main food in the mix being Totally Ferret. I have one elderly ferret and one under one year of age, so it's tricky keeping their food bowls separated. I know they eat out of each other's bowls, but I do think the 'baby formula' and 'senior formula' that Totally Ferret has are great ideas. The baby formula is higher in calories and vitamin rich; the senior formula is low-calorie and easy on nutrients that could be hard on kidneys and other things that can fail in old age.  So, they both have their own special mix, but they 'cheat' too. You will have the ideal situation with two under one year of age. Your little Bailey can use the extra nutrition of the TF baby formula (which should be used for the first year) for a year from the time he had helicobacter because his nutrition is so far behind. Don't let him get overweight - keep his activity up to prevent that. Hopefuly he will start feeling more like playing in a week or so.

I look forward to hearing from you that Bailey is doing better. He must get a lot of love and have a strong will to live; most ferrets would have been dead by now with so little nutrition from what you describe. I know that helicobacter kids don't eat much when it comes to kibble.  Keep loving him; you'll be surprised how quickly he'll turn the corner. I think that's one of the awesome things about ferrets. They can literally be at death's door one day and if they receive the right treatment, they can come around and act like nothing happened to them (except they KNOW you are the one who made them well and they are forever grateful to you and they show it :-) and bounce back so very quickly! Not only in illnesses, but also with surgeries. They are so incredible!  I expect you will see a big difference in a week or so.  

BTW....discontinue the ferretvite completely and toss it out; the sugar content in it is not good for ferrets. Learn to read the labels and know that ferrets are strictly carnivores, meat eaters, and they must never ever have anything with sugar in it - not even a little bit of sugar. It is just now being accepted as fact that ferrets who eat sugar are the only ferrets who get insulinomas, cancers of the pancreas. So, it's all that more important not to give sugar of any kind in any form. (**NOTE: for hairball prevention, see my many posts on Uncle Jim's Duk Soup and Vetasyl mixture and give that to your ferrets every two weeks. It's much healthier for them than sugary goopy hairball treatments). It's good for ALL ferrets to learn to eat a soup of some kind. That way, whenever they do get sick, they are already familiar with it and you don't have to force it; it is something they look forward to. Be it A/D, I/D 'soups' or Uncle Jim's Duk Soup Mix, all ferrets need to eat soup regularly. At first they will protest. Ferrets always protest any new food. They will take to it if you finger-feed it tho. Eventually they will gladly eat it on their own, even if it's the 200th time you offer it....just be patient and continue to give it.

Thanks so much for writing again - please do update me when he starts doing better?  I will keep him in my thoughts and prayers. He's a lucky little guy that you are going to get what he needs right away - hopefully tomorrow - so he can start feeling better soon. Call around to vet offices or just walk in and ask for it. Tell them it's for your ferret who is recuperating from helicobacter and you should have no problems in getting it whatsoever.  At least get half a dozen cans while you wait for the ones you order online to arrive, okay?  It's imperative he start as soon as possible - you could still lose him if you don't and that would be so very sad at this point, especially when we know the 'fix' is so simple.

Sincerely,

Jacquie Rodgers

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: oh good I can reach you again. It wasn't working yesterday. So your going to be super happy! I bought Bailey four cans of the a/d yesterday to start off. He had some yesterday, and then a little more yesterday night. I noticed that after one feeding, he had more energy and was wandering around my bedroom =) it did give him diarrhea but only a little, and he seemed to have normal stools the second time he went. I was wondering how much to give to him each time. The problem is he doesn't like it at all. I have to force it into his mouth and he gets pretty squirmy. Also, does it have to be soup or can I give him it warmed but not with water in it? I really think its going to help him a lot and am glad I talked to you. It was three dollars at my vets office per can which is crazy. And on that one website, they charge $40.00 for 24 cans so it comes out to about the same as your vet sells it for. If you still want the site let me know. I was really excited to get him the food and thought I would let you know about it !! okay well if you have any suggestions on what to do, let me know.Thank you !!!

ps. i wasnt giving Bailey ferret vite, it was furo vite, is that bad for him too? thanks

Answer
Hi Christine & Little Bailey:

I just discovered something new that I think will help Bailey and wanted to get in touch with you.  Remember I told you that one of my ferrets is post ECE and has had chronic diarrhea for years?  Well a friend gave me a sample of Totally Ferret's new turkey and venison formula food and suddenly my 7 year old lazy ferret with squirty diarrhea is full of energy and has fully formed stools, and eats like a horse!!  I cannot believe the difference in him!!  I'm even giving him the turkey/venison treats so he has NO chicken in his diet now and he's just like a new ferret. The change is just so incredible I wanted to share it with you and hope you will try at least a bag on Bailey....or contact them and ask for a sample if nothing else.  Here's where you can get it:   http://www.totallyferret.com  I'm not affiliated with them in any way except that I'm very very grateful to them for giving me my little boy back - he had had diarrhea almost daily for his whole life - it was a balancing act just keeping his fluids up and he was always weak - now suddenly he jumps and dooks and plays like crazy!!  Hope the same results for Bailey.  Please check back and let me know, ok?

Sincerely,

Jacquie Rodgers

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Hi Christine & Little Bailey boy:

I'm SO happy that you actually took my advice and got the A/D so quickly!  Sometimes I think I waste my time because people don't always do what we recommend and the ferrets get sicker and often die, which makes me feel soo helpless!  THANK YOU so much for reacting so quickly, getting the food and getting it down him - you're an awesome ferret mom!

Furo vite is the same as Ferret Vite, just made by 8 in one instead of Marshalls :-)   Read the label - I think you will find sugar in it if I'm not mistaken; if so, don't feed it due to the insulinoma incidence in ferrets who eat sugar - it's really really bad for them, even in small amounts.  

A better supplement is Ferretone or Furotone, which is an oily supplement that will help his coat fluff up and soften. Their coats suffer a lot when their diet is bad and since he hasn't eaten well for a while, I'm sure he could use the vitamine in Ferretone. Just don't overdo on the Ferretone. He can only have about two tablespoons a week maximum. There is no sugar in it, but there are oil-based vitamins that stay in the system. Some vitamins, like B-vitamins, will be shed from the body in urine if there is too much, but other vitamins, like A and D, stay in the body and can build up to toxic levels if you aren't careful. Ferretone has a lot of both A and D in it.  What most folks do is get a *small* dropper bottle from a beauty supply place, then fill it halfway with Ferretone, the other half with virgin olive oil. Put the unused portion of Ferretone in the refrigerator for later use.

It's important to use only a small bottle because it can go rancid. Watch that it doesn't change color or turn yellow or get thick. If it does, wash it out of your dropper bottle with very hot soapy water and make a fresh batch with the Ferretone you've kept in your refrigerator and virgin olive oil. They seem to like the taste just as well with the olive oil added - the oil is good for them too - and it makes it so you can give them a treat of a few drops more often if it's cut 1/2 and 1/2 with the olive oil. That's what I'd recommend for vitamins for him.

I knew he wouldn't like the A/D at first - none of them do. If he's not gagging, that's a good sign. Mine gagged when he first had it, now he begs for it. It may take a week for him to get used to it, just keep giving it and I promise he will learn to love it. Ferrets are strictly carnivores (meat eaters) and A/D is pure meat, so even tho they aren't used to it at first, it's the best thing for them overall.  Ideally, our ferrets should be eating chicken, duck, rabbit, etc but most of us just don't want to mess with preparation, so we buy kibble instead. No doubt our kids would be healthier if we fed them pure meat diets. Ferrets imprint on their food at a very young age, which means they only recognize what they are eating as food; this makes it really hard to change food on them....hard, but not impossible.  So, please don't give up.  Keep feeding the A/D - feed it as soup OR on your finger thicker if he likes it better that way.  However he will take it better. Hopefully he is eating at least l/3 of a can each sitting. That will increase as he is used to the food, so don't worry if he's eating a little less than that; just keep trying to get him to eat even up to 1/2 of a can if he's a big ferret (I had one ferret who would eat 1/2 can at a sitting).

Don't forget - he needs to eat the warm A/D three times a day.  Use the ferretone for a treat; dribble it on their little nose/tongue once they get used to it/ and they will love it. Remember, tho, it's new too, so they will need to get used to it at first also.

My thoughts and prayers are with Bailey and with you. It's not always easy and convenient to feed a ferret a warm meal three times a day; I've done it for years and years. After a while it does become routine. I'm so glad he has such a good, responsible, and loving mommy. I'm so glad he's already showing at least a little energy....he was probably showing you "yes, mom, that's what I need - food! That other stuff was hurtin' my tummy!!" :-)  Check back in a few weeks and let me know that he's fat and sassy and feeling spunky? I will anxiously await hearing from you!

Sincerely,

Jacquie Rodgers