fish sick

Question
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chris,
thank you so much i kinda thought that i was not sure. I also want to know if you can tell me why the algae is all over the tank. it is like grass. i mean thick. i have lost almost all the fish sence last night. i only have 6 lsft now. if they all die, how many should i start with. i told my husband that 15 fish was way too much. that just because it is big does not mean it can handle that many different fish at once. the (water) also can you tell me what are some good fish to have i love oscars and pauccos ( i think i missed spelled that) but he like the pretty lil ones that move around alot. how many algae eater should i have for a tank like that? thank you so much it really helped me alot. the people at petsmart here in houston are not so bright and they are suposed to the experts. LOL they even told use that we could put two rainbow sharks in the tank and come to find out it is not good to have more than one. I wonder why the smaller one hid all the time.
thank again.
christina holland



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Followup To
Question -
hi,
my husband has had tank for about a month now. It is a 55 gallon tank. I gess you would call it a community tank. he has a catfish in it i think it is a upsidown. a angel fish and i am not sure what they are called. three of them are a light orange with dark orange stripes. and three are silver with black stripes. the two types i am not sure what they are called are the same just different colors. we also have a brown alge eater. first off we started off with 2 angel fish one died 2 days after we got it. we also had a big rainbow shark and a smaller one. the bigger one died the other day. and to day the catfish died. now one of the orange fish is dieing.I am not used to haveing these kind of fish. i have raised oscars all my life and when my oscar died that i had for almost 10 years well i have not been able to get a new one. so he decided to have smaller fish. they are not in the same tank that i used for my oscar. the tank also has live plants in it. i am not sure what they are. i have tanken the plants out because they were making alot of green algee. i have cleaned the tank so that the algee in not in it. the ph level was 7.6 and i put some ph down in it to lower it abit. the water is cloudy white i think from that catfish. i just not sure what is going on. the fish twich like they are having seizures. i thought it was ick so i have tried that and followed the directions to a T. it has been two days sence i tried that. do you have any ides?
thank you christina holland
Answer -
Hi Christina;

It's a classic case of "New Tank Syndrome." Toxins are making them sick. The toxins are from fish waste that isn't being consumed by beneficial bacteria colonies that usually live in the filter and places like the gravel and decorations. There are too many fish in it too early I'm afraid. The bacteria colonies are not mature enough yet to handle it all. Make a 25% water change every day for the next 3 days to lower the toxins to a more tolerable level. You don't want to eliminate the toxins so don't drain the tank or over-clean it. The bacteria needs food in order to grow and the food for them are those toxins. You just want them low enough that the fish are safe while the process continues. Stop using the ich medicine. It will hurt the fish more by irritating their skin and gills. Unless you see white specks on the fish like they are sprinkled in salt, they don't have ich.

The cloudiness is from two things. The pH lowering chemical and from the "New Tank Syndrome." The tank simply needs to break-in and most of the troubles you are having will go away. Don't alter the pH. The fluctuations it causes are more harmful and stressful to your fish than letting them get used to the pH your tank likes to be. A level of 7.6 is actually very good and your tank water will naturally go a little lower as the system ages.

Algae is a natural occurence and is actually very healthy. Your algae eater will starve to death if he doesn't have enough in there to feed on too. The plants did not cause it. The plants will actually help avoid too much algae growth because they feed on the same nutrients and the plants will shade areas of the tank the green algae likes to grow. The plants also helped add more beneficial bacteria as well as feeding on some of the toxins. So, put them back in and it may help the whole situation.

Here is a link to my article on new tanks to help you know more about the whole crazy process;

http://www.xanga.com/Expert_Fish_Help

Let me know if you need more help or have other questions.....

At Your Service;
Chris Robbins

Answer
Hi Christina;

I'm so sorry you have had to lose so many. It's a shame that stores like that don't teach their employees the basics. I had a young girl working for me after she left one of the chains like Petsmart or Petco. She said she was certified from training in fish and had a cute little thing on her name tag from there that said so. They give these people only a couple of hours of training and then call them knowledgable. There is so much more to fishkeeping than that. It gives the employee a false sense of authority in the department they were trained in. You probably know more than they do after just a couple of emails from me and some actual experience! It's sad. Needless to say, I had to retrain this girl with some actual information and hands-on learnin'!

That algae you have is probably one of these; "hair algae", "beard algae", "red algae" or "brush algae". There are several different types. It is indeed difficult to deal with. Most algae eating fish don't like the taste of it. I have some in my 55 gallon too so I got a few gold barbs to eat it for me, one of the few that like it. True 'Siamese Algae Eaters' eat it too but they are very difficult to find. There are some fish sold as SAE's, but usually they are not the true SAE's. The stuff doesn't grow long anymore in my tank but I still see signs of it. It's weird stuff. Many hobbyists just use a popsicle stick, clean plastic comb or a chopstick and twirl it around and gently pull it out. They do that from time to time as it gets long. Yuck. Here are some links about it with descriptions and possible ways to remove it;

http://mikes-machine.mine.nu/algae_gallery.htm
http://www.fishpondinfo.com/plants/algaeinfo.htm#algae
http://groups.msn.com/LyreTailsAquarium/sae.msnw
http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/
http://faq.thekrib.com/algae.html#hair
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/red-algae.html

If all the fish do die, make a 75% water change, vacuum the gravel and get a test kit to monitor the levels of toxins as the tank breaks in with some new fish. Get a combination of fish or one single fish that equals no more than 5 or 6 inches of total fish length. The chances are good that the tank is close to completely finishing the break-in, but you still have to take it very slow. Add no additional fish than the 5 or 6 inches I recommended until you know it's done. The way to know is that ammonia and nitrite have been "zero" for a solid week while the new fish are in there. The toxin known as nitrate is okay at up to 40 ppm, but ammonia and nitrite should be zero. If they are elevated, make a 25% water change to keep it low until the whole process is done. Even after it's finished, add only a couple of fish per week. The beneficial bacteria needs that time to compensate for the new population.

Oscars and Pacu get very large. Your 55 gallon tank can only support one or maybe two oscars and one smaller type of plecostamus as the total population, but not pacu. Pacu get 3 feet long and should not ever be sold to anyone with a tank smaller than 500 gallons. They really should be illegal to possess at all. So many have been forced to live their lives in tanks too small and get sick or are released into lakes and rivers when they outgrow their owner's tanks. This is a very dangerous and cruel practice. Pacu are tropical fish that if released to the wild simply die, or if they are released in areas that stay warm they will grow huge and eat native fishes and possibly carry foreign disease to our local species.

The regular type of plecostamus get a foot long so stick with those that stay under 8 inches. You only need one or two in your tank, but some are a little territorial. Read about them and do research on each one you can find available at your local fish store. Here are some options;

http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/250.htm
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/150.htm
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/329.htm
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/469.htm

If you decide on smaller fish you could have Otocinclus if you prefer them. Otos stay very small so you should have 5 or 6 in a 55. The above smaller plecostomus are okay with smaller fish too. Here is a link to info on otos;

http://www.aqualandpetsplus.com/Catfish,%20Otocinclus.htm

You might be interested in some web sites for beginners too;

http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin.html
http://www.firsttankguide.net/size.php
http://www.firsttankguide.net/capacity.php
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/charts/good_bad.html
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/beginnerinfo/a/fishcalc.htm
http://www.firsttankguide.net/steps.php
http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/aquariumstartup/a/newtankmistakes.htm

I hope I covered everything for you. Let me know if you need more help.

At Your Service;
Chris Robbins