Hybridization Question.

Question
QUESTION: Hi Mark,
I'm a fellow 'expert' here but have a question that has been bugging me for decades.
So if you don't know it, don't worry, you're in good company. No one I've asked seems to be sure.

I know the Sliders (Genus: Trachemys, or formerly Pseudemys) will readily hybridize with others within the genus.

The same with Painted Turtles (Genus: Chrysemys).
Painted Turtles will also hybridize with other painteds.

But given their many similarities such as long nails in males, and their use in the cheek 'caressing' ritual in both, has for years lead me to ponder if the two genera are reproductively compatible.

Will Sliders hybridize with Painteds?



ANSWER: Hey, Luis! Good work here!

As far as we can tell, it DOES happen in the wild sometimes. The problem is that the hybrids look so much like one parent that it might happen more than we know.

We are also unsure (again, as far as I know) if the hybrids are fertile- it is so hard to track nests and babies, and it takes so long for turtles to reproduce that it just complicates matters.

The entire taxonomy of the turtles, especially the pond turtles, is in question in the last decade or so- it seems like every researcher is proclaiming that things need to be changed based on their latest research.

Heck- even the tortoises are in uproar- every major species is getting 'new' genera names- most of which are not catching on yet.

In all honesty, the hodge-podge of genera, species, and subspecies in the turtles often drives me whacko!

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks Mark, I thought so. They are just too similar not to be related.

I have some experience with Box Turtle Hybrids but they are all the same Genus - 'Terrapene'.
Though with Box Turtles, the hybrids are apparently fertile, and usualy dramaticaly different from the parent species.

I have 2 Eastern X 3-Toed hybrids. They look like neon (super colorful) 3-toeds, which are commonly pretty drab in coloration.
Also 2 baby Eastern X Ornata hybrids. I got them from someone who claimed both the parents were hybrids.
Hence why I suspect them not to be sterile. But since I didn't hatch them myself, I can't confirm it.

You can see pics here: http://aboxturtle.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=917
Carey and Waldo, are Eastern X 3-toed Hybrids.
I'll post pics later of my Eastern X Ornata Hybrids when I take them.

I also have some pics of 3-toed X Ornata hybrids I got form the net that I can post if you wish to see them.
They look a lot like the Eastern X Ornatas I have.

Thanks for the info, Luis

Answer
T. c. carolina crossed with other T. carolina sub-species are not real surprising- they probably hybridize along the habitat overlap zones with some frequency (very common unless the zones are separated physically somehow).

I'd love to see good photos of the T. ornata x any T. carolina mix, especially the plastron! Between habitat and courtship rituals, there are some real barriers to T. o. x T. c. crosses, but I have no doubt they happen- probably mostly in captivity.