Second Turtle

Question
QUESTION: Hello, I am considering a second turtle and am trying to gain all the information I can before doing so or deciding not to. I know that turtles are not really 'social' animals but having two creates a little variety and action in the tank(and mess and cleaning and excessive filtration basking spots etc) I am fine with the extra work and care. I currently have one male(his shell is pretty curved in, not out) he has been handled alot and comes to me for food eats out of my hand and such, I think he is about a year or two old, I got him back in August and previous to that he was in with other turtles, I do not want to wait too long before getting another if I do as I do not want to have him become used to being alone, I have read RES can become aggressive, are there any behaviors I can look for right now while he is alone that would indicate aggression? He likes his cuttle bone, digs in his glass smooth rocks, leaves the filter alone, sometimes climbs on or pushes the heater, tries biting on the dock and moves it around the tank(its the big plastic floating one that suction cups to the bottom of the tank) I have been looking at 75-90 gallon tanks, very early looking, I need to look at dimensions for them because I am not sure what those are for bigger tanks, right now he is in a smaller tank, I am moving soon and really do not want to purchase a big tank fill it then move in 3 or 4 months, he also has a filtrated 20 gallon tall tank for feeding so i do not have to use a tub or his living tank. He is about 5 and a half inches and I have seen most RES males get 6-7 give or take for certain males. I am very interested in map turtles. The high orange mississippis are beautiful and ouachitas are as well. I have been on other forums and they say maps are quite skittish, some say they have confident maps. Some also say a male and female can do okay as long as they are not closely related species and won't have a pestering breeding issue? I have seen male orange mississippi and ouachitas get around 5-6 inches full grown? So would a female be better as they would get about the size of my boy I already have? I am not too in love with cooters or musks, though I know they occupy a different level of the tank than sliders usually. I do not want to make my current boy be the 'bad guy' if aggression started or have to put another turtle through it if it happened to become aggressive, I would just really love a contrast to my RES in looks and more swimming and movement in the tank, thank you for your time

ANSWER: Hi Koti,

If you want to add another turtle, the most important aspect is having plenty of space.  That means a very large tank.  If you can't do at least 100+ gallons, I would limit your tank to one turtle.  If you have enough room, it's easier to provide big enough basking areas plus enough sight breaks and hiding areas to help avoid aggression issues.  I think when planning for more than one turtle it's always better to plan bigger.  

Maps are shyer than RES, but that's somewhat individual with any species and interaction between two turtles is somewhat individual as well.  Ideally it would be better to get a map that's bigger than your RES, but that doesn't sound likely.  Try to get the second turtle through rescue or from someone who's had it for a while and can give you some idea of personality.  Honestly I don't think there's any way to know if your RES will be aggressive with another turtle.  I've seen individuals kept alone that were totally placid, but completely obnoxious with other turtles.  Same goes with breeding behavior--some males are OK with females, and others are holy terrors without regard to species.  Most are somewhere in the middle.   Your turtle is certainly older than a year and probably older than two unless he grew very quickly--at that size I would guess more like three+ years.  Most male RES hit somewhere around 7", but *can* get bigger, so keep that in mind.  

Not sure how helpful this has been for you!  In general, I would suggest the biggest tank you can manage, with a basking area more than large enough for two turtles, plenty of sight breaks, and definitely feed separately to avoid issues at feeding times.  Keeping more than one turtle together can certainly be done, but it's better if you start out the best way possible.  It sounds like you're willing to do what's necessary, so if you can provide the space, I think it'll probably go OK.

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QUESTION: I have been trying to find turtle rescues in Arizona but have not been able to find any that were not strictly education or preservation purposes. He has grown maybe an inch to two since I have had him from August, no sign of pyramiding though the past couple feedings I have not seen him potty, though he does have a tendency to remove his own potty though I try to watch him when it is feeding time I don't always have the time to sit and wait for him, the water temp in his feeding tank is about 80 I think as I know they need warmer water to help with digestion, I did not want the water too warm for him in general.

It is really helpful, also confirming of things I have heard from others. would two basking areas work as well? The one he has now I would bet is big enough but would two be beneficial in the bigger tank? Also, is there a way to weight down live plants for sight line breaks? I won't be using sand as it is just too scary for their digestive track to me, he currently has smooth glass 'pebbles' that are bigger than his mouth, he likes to dig in them so I would imagine he would be disrupting plants all the time and what plants would you recommend? I know there are some they like to munch on. I do feed him the turtle chaser clam treats in his tank, that is all he is fed in his living tank as I like to give him a chance to hunt, that would still be classified as competition with two turtles if two treats were put in right? I have also heard alot of keepers feed every other day and some just say a couple times a week and others a little each day, which is best for them? I have not found a green that he likes either

ANSWER: You can contact Long Island Turtle Rescue at http://www.turtlerescues.com.  Julie does ship, but I'm not sure how long she can ship to AZ because of temperatures.  

The water temperature should be more like 75-76.  If the water is too warm, they don't bask enough.  The basking temperature is really what they need to warm up enough.  You want about a 15 degree difference, so if water is 75 and basking is 90, that's perfect.

Two basking areas would help, as long as the turtles don't decide that one spot is better than another.  I think generally speaking, using artificial plants is easier than live, although you can add in floating plants like anacharis or duckweed, too.  Sliders are pretty hard on plants.  This is a pretty in-depth article on planted tanks:  http://www.austinsturtlepage.com/Articles/plantedturtletanks.htm.

Any food that goes in the tank is going to lead to some competition, but the main thing is if one turtle bullies the other or hogs everything.  If the turtles are closely matched in size and somewhat in temperament, there shouldn't really be a problem.  From observation you'll know whether you really need to keep all food separate.  As far as how often to feed, that's up to you.  Turtles over about a year old should be fed less to avoid them becoming overweight and growing too fast, but you can feed on whatever schedule you want.  If you do feed daily, just make sure it's less.  I personally would prefer to skip feeding on one or two days a week, but it's not mandatory.  Not sure what green you've tried, but turnip, mustard, kale, collards, spring mix, romaine (that can be addictive, though, so don't overdo it), dandelion, etc. are all good.  Also try veggies such as squash, peppers, carrots, mushrooms.  If he still won't eat greens or veggies, I would not feed him anything else until he comes around.  They can be stubborn, but won't starve themselves.

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QUESTION: Thank you so much, I will look into it! His water in his living tank is the 75 with the 90 basking spot, his feeding tank is the one I raised the temp on. Can they rip the plastic apart though? I have heard sometimes they do.

I have tried kale, cucumber, romaine collards, and even a dried mix of veggies and fruits. He did very much enjoy a grape the other day, I will try some others you suggested and see if he improves! Thank you so much!

Answer
Sorry, I misunderstood about the temps.  It's OK if the feeding tank is cooler.  They retain heat from basking for quite a while.

Most of the time they will give plastic plants a bite or two and then leave them alone.  They may still dig them up and knock them around, though.

Try cutting back the amount of other foods and let him get good and hungry, then try greens and veggies again in small quantities.  Being hungry often works.  And you're welcome!