Florida (Hard water)

Question
QUESTION: Hi Christy,
I was reading though the posted Q &As, and came across where you mentioned you lived in Florida, and that our water down here is "very hard."

Right now I'm cycling a new 10 gallon tank
[See Outdoor FW Aq in Miami Beach - Christopher Mark], but using spring water for now. I plan on going to a larger setup - 100 gallons or so, and wonder if our water would be an issue.

Will perhaps filtering it though a "human" drinking water filter help?
If so, do these filters remove Chlorine from the water as well.

Thanks, Luis
ANSWER: Hi Luis
Wow, I looked at your list of fish, and I have never heard of them lol :)  I tried doing a quick search on them, it looks like they're mostly livebearers and a minnow type of fish.  Those look like they may be hard to find here state side too!  Especially with the whole US Cuba thing....

I usually say for most fish, the ph and such is ok because most of the fish we buy at the store are tank bred, so they can handle most anything.  I've personally had a hard time with a few species when I lived in FL, German Blue Rams and an Elephant Nose.  I found out later the elephant nose was wild caught, and the German blue rams are just sensitive fish.  I attributed it to the water we had down there.  So, it's hard to say, especially since I'm not at all familiar with those fish.  I also am not familiar with water filters either, never used one before.  I believe the more pricier ones will remove chlorine, but I can't say for sure on that.  I'm sorry, I can't help you with that question.  I do have a link though, it tells you ways you can adjust your ph and soften your water using peat.  You'll need to copy and paste to your browser:

http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html

Just be sure to read up really good on it, because you're going to have to take extra steps when you do water changes, like let it sit out for awhile soaking in the peat etc.  to avoid ph shock in the water differences.

Also, when I was browsing at the different species you had listed, I saw something that mentioned the Limia Vittata you have were brackish fish.  Maybe I misread that, but might want to check into that.   They do make a nitrate test kit.  I just bought a Master test kit, it's a dropper one, made by API, was about 30. at PetSmart.  Has ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, and high ph test kits in it.  

Good luck with your tank and your future one!  Sounds like it'll be really cool!  And sorry I couldn't help you out here, but do read that link I posted above, has some good info on it.  Try posting to another expert on the water filters, like I said I've never used one, and have no clue about them.  I've always just dealt with what I had for water, and stopped buying the super sensitive fish :)

Enjoy your weekend, or what's left!

Christy

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Christy,  

The Limia vittata I have were captive bred in New Jersey. It is the only Cuban species I have been able to find at all after a year of searching.

I looked them up, as you suggested, at the link below. As I understand the information there, they are fresh water livebearers.
They inhabit both fresh and brackish ecologies, and thus salt tolerant.
I've read elsewhere, they are similar to mollies, and sometimes called 'Cuban molly'.

http://www.fishbase.se/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=4665

I'm hoping to find other species from U.S. captive breeders as well.

Though importing directly from Cuba is not permitted, it is perfectly legal to import Cuban species from third countries, with all the usual permits of course, and provided they are not protected or endangered.
I put the list up just in case someone knows, but knowing they are very hard to come by.

As far as the pH goes, I'm going to make an educated guess that they are also pretty tolerant.
Cuba like Florida, is largely limestone, the difference is that in most places, Cuba has slightly acidic soils,
virtually perfect for agriculture, while suffer here with our alkaline sand. - LOL
So no doubt the limias encounter differences in pH as well as salinity.
I'm going to try to gear the pH more to the affinity of the nitrogen cycle bacteria in the aquarium using peat, and coral to adjust it as needed.

What is the best pH for the bacteria?

Thanks, Luis
ANSWER: Hi Luis
I think that's the same link I was looking at, I must've just seen the brackish water.  They do sound a bit like mollies lol.  If I ever see or hear anything about someone that breeds Cuban fish, I'll post/email you a follow up.  Try checking around on some of the fish forums online.  A lot of those people know all kinds of breeders.  Also, try looking at www.aquabid.com, it's an auction style site, they have lots of kinds of hard to find fish on there.  They have a place too for Items Wanted.  Maybe a breeder of one of those fish will see your post.  

I've just never heard of any of those fish you listed, unless they have another name they're called here state side.  If you found that breeder, they very well may be able to adapt like you said, and I agree, they're probably pretty hearty fish.  

Bacteria will grow in any ph, as long as there's an ammonia source to start it.  Marine tanks with higher ph's have their "own" beneficial bacteria, and freshwater tanks with lower ph's have their own.  Now peat will lower the ph while coral will raise it.  You may not need to use both, if your ph is running high, may just need the peat to lower it, or vice versa.  

Good luck with your venture!  Like I said, if I ever see anything I'll let you know!!

Christy

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Christy,
I just posted some progress, in "Outdoor FW Aq in Miami Beach".
I am encouraged.
I want to thank you as well, for all your kind help.
I found the limias on aquabid. I noticed a lot of sellers are from East Asia, (Singapore ect.)
I'm hoping for future finds there.
I didn't know about the "Wanted" section and just posted there. Thanks for that as well.

I've decided at least to start, to use the spring water for the larger tank next month.
A lot of money I know, but as much as I love Florida, I can't say much for its it's water.
Filtered it tastes great, but out of the faucet, it's very heavy, and as you said, we have no reliable info on the filters -- yet.
So I'll probably not have to deal much with the pH if like you say, the bacteria are not as picky about it.
But if I would need to change it, I just meant put in the coral or the peat until I get the desired result then remove it.

Most of the fish I listed don't even have common names that I know of.
So it's not surprising that they are not well known to aquarisits.
Even in Cuba they are all known collectively as "Guajacones", outside of the realm of science.

Who knows the way things are going, hopefully I'll be able to go home and bring some back myself.
I just discovered as I was writing you, that 'Atya lanipes', a Cuban Lobster sized FW shrimp,
is also endemic to Puerto Rico - no permits required. I'll be getting some soon with any luck.

Thanks again for all your help.
I'll keep you posted,
Luis

Answer
Hey Luis
Your updated post hasn't shown up yet on the other question.  So I can't view it yet.  I'll look at it tomorrow, or rather later today...  I'm glad I at least was able to help with something lol, glad you found something on Aqua Bid.  Hope that goes well if you buy from there.  

100 gallons of spring water huh?  That's gonna be expensive!!  Not to mention a pain doing water changes!  You are right though, the water was awful lol!!  I remember it tasted salty sometimes-especially during dry season, and when I was on well water-forget it!  You know what you might to check into, an RO unit.  Now, I never got into any of that stuff, I know RO water is good for marine fish.  RO water will have everything chemicals, elements and minerals removed from it.  But with marine tanks, the salt contains all the minerals and elements the fish needs, so it gets added back in that way.  Not sure on the fish you want, what their requirements are.  Here's a good link I found on that, just something else for you to think about lol:

http://www.osmoticwaterfiltration.com/Aquaria.htm

Do some research on the peat and coral thing.  It'll help raise or lower the ph, but if you remove it, it may make the ph crash or raise significantly-depending on your water.  When you get into altering ph, you need to make sure you understand about the buffering capacity of the water.  That's like with those chemical products ph up/ph down, people pour them in, the ph rises/falls to the right level, and the next day it's back to where it was because there's nothing to buffer the water.  That's all I'm going to say about that, because that's all I really understand about it :)  I've always heard it wasn't good to alter the ph unless you really knew what you were doing, so I never messed with it.

A lobster sized shrimp?  Wow, you could start your own shrimp farm lol!! Or at least sell some on ebay.  I saw some lady selling some kind of small freshwater shrimp for tanks cherry shrimp or something?  She seemed to be doing pretty good with it :)  

Well good luck again!  Definitely keep me posted!

Christy