Behavorial Problem

Question
We have a 6yr old mare (April) and her 6mo old filly (Sunshine), a 3yr old filly (Doodlebug) and a 6 yr old gelding (Tramp). We just bought a 3 yr old gelding (Diego) that was gelded about 3 weeks before we got him. We turned him out with the other horses and Tramp literally tried to kill him. We separated Diego from the others hoping that they would accept him over the fence. That didn't help, they stayed as far away from the fence as they could. So, we decided that since Tramp was the worst about hurting him we'd put Diego in with the mares and separate Tramp from them. The mares fought with him a little but now seem to accept him (except April she doesn't like him to get to close to Sunshine). How can we get Tramp to accept him? Diego has tried to breed Doodlebug a couple of times now and she lets him? What is up with this? He's a gelding that was never used for breeding purposes when he was a stud, he still does the "baby talk" thing. Any suggestions on our problems with Diego and Tramp?

Answer
Susie,

You have a severe case of alpha gelding and herd instinct here.   Tramp was the only boy there (yeah, I know he's a gelding but he's still a boy to the mares) and all of a sudden this young whipper snapper got added to the herd and became and instant threat to supremecy for Tramp.  Yeah, he went after the new boy big time.  This can be extremely difficult behavior to stop. It's based on instinct and each horse is an individual as to how strong it is with them.   

I have a Mustang gelding who behaves the same way when I add new geldings to my herd.  I already have 3 geldings - 23, 22 and 14) with 4 mares (18, 15, 4 and 16 mos.).  I had one gelding here for training who Lightning terrorized so badly he put him through an electric fence and bit him up rather badly.  I finally resorted to hobbling Lightning.  Not front feet, he could still run with that arrangement so I resorted to side hobbles.  Fortunately Lightning never figured out how to pace.  That slowed him up a whole lot.  He could still make ugly faces and snake his head but that was it.  It took 2 weeks and he ripped the skin up on all 4 ankles until he was too sore even when the hobbles came off to chase Wizzy.  By that time Wizzy had established his place and been accepted by the rest and Lightning quit.  He would still intimidate Wizzy periodically, just bullying him, and if he got too bad I put the hobbles back on until the next day.  That reminder was enough.  I just had to keep after him.  Wizzy was only here for 8 wks. so this didn't go long term but I would have expected that all would have been back to normal with the new horse totally accepted within say 6 mos.  

I had already tried putting Lightning and Wizzy together in the round pen for a week, hoping they would make friends.  Lightning was totally different with all the girls outside and they were alone.  But when I put the 2 of them out he went from sharing a pile of hay companionably with Wizzy to tearing him up and chasing him mercilessly again.  The side hobbles were a last resort.  I used a set of soft, rope hobbles that had loops at both ends and about 18-20 in. of rope between the loops.  Not as short as front leg hobbles.  And, like I said, Lightning was so determined that he chafed the skin on all 4 ankles with the hobbles because the were all that was stopping him from chasing after Wizzy but he would still try.  

You may not like my answer, and possibly think I was cruel, but nothing else worked in my situation that I could think of.  I couldn't be here 24 hrs. a day to watch him and keep him from bullying the new horse.  In your case Diego is enough younger that he's still socializing as a baby and Tramp won't acknowledge that.  Diego is showing submission with his "baby talk" (I'm the baby, please don't hurt me) yet Tramp is still bullying him.  Tramp may not take as long to learn as my boy did, I don't know.  But, you may consider trying this.  It did work.  I've had a couple of friends resort to the same thing when all else failed for them.    

Lyn