Rat wont eat with hands

Question
QUESTION: Hi

We noticed that one of our female rats (about 6 mo old IIRC) was getting thinner and preferred to stay in the rat house when we would come in the room.  Her sisters and mother always run to the top of the cage and track our every movement.  Although they never fight, we thought she might have trouble competing for food, so we moved her to her own cage last week.  I noticed red areas on her front legs that almost looked like sores.  It's been a week and the redness is gone.  However, something is not right.  She is mobile and does use her front legs when walking.  She is not agile at all, but this may be because she is weak.  Here is the odd thing.  When she eats, she walks up to the dish, places her head in it and nibbles.  She won't pick up the food.  When she is offered a yogurt drop, she'll nibble it from your hand, but won't take it.  If you give it to her, she'll leave it on the bedding and gnaw at it quite ineffectively.  She still likes being held, but sometimes nips extremely weakly.  She is also easily startled and when you approach her cage, she has a scared rabbit type of look.  Have you ever seen anything like this before?  Is there such a thing as a rodent stroke?

TIA
Rob


PS-  One of her sisters recently fell victim to an extremely large tumor that rapidly engulfed her front paw.  This couldn't be related, could it?

ANSWER: Hi Rob

I am sorry your little girl is having problems. Unfortunately this does sound neurological in nature.
Rats can and do have cerebrovascular accidents(strokes) but she is pretty young for it. However, I must ask where you got her from.  If she is from a pet store chances are she was bred as feeder stock but sold as a pet. Feeder stock rats are not bred for health at all and there are alot of congenital problems with them so to have something like this happen in a younger rat that was not bred from a healthy line is not unheard of, but it is a shame it happens. I am not sure if this pertains to your girl, though, but I am simply stating fact. Alot of people are unaware of this.

Anyhow, back to your little girl:

Her problems seems neurological in nature and from what you have told me about her behavior, I am afraid that she may be showing signs of a pituitary tumor.

One of the first signs is weakness with the front paws, weight loss and weakness in the jaws making it a little difficult to chew harder foods.

When rats have this tumor this is what happens:
As time goes in and the tumor gets bigger and presses on the brain stem, rats with this tumor may begin to lose their balance and some walk in circles (what is referred to as "spinning"} They may even have seizures. It becomes more difficult for the rat to eat and drink and the owner must feed the rat mashed or strained foods such as baby foods and assist the rat in drinking since she wont be able to hold onto the nipple of the water bottle. Often a syringe is needed for this. Of course this is no quality of life for the rat, sadly.
I am not saying for sure that this is what is wrong with your rat, however, but she does have some signs of it.
The good news is, she is pretty young for this condition since it mostly occurs in female rats that are unspayed and once they reach menopause, around 18 months and up, the estrogen level rises dramatically and not only do mammary tumors start to form, this is when pituitary tumors are formed as well.

Where did you get her from?  Do you have a vet that is experienced with rats such as an exotic specialist?

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks for the reply.  I did a bit of research after asking the question and found some information on Debbie Ducommun's site.  I was surprised how well the symptoms matched.  I mentioned that she is lethargic, but now that I think about it, it's more like clumsiness.  She also does have trouble opening her jaw.

Her parents were offspring from my daughter's friend's rats.  The mother, Andre, is an excellent specimen.  Ultra friendly, smart, playful, loving, excellent parenting skills, beautiful coat.  We may breed her again if I have a lapse in sanity.  The father is another story.  Typical case of PPP.  He's covered in scratchy see through peach fuzz, has curly whiskers and is dumb as a stone.  My daughter felt sorry for him.  His name is Elephant.  The boys got most of his genes.  They were an unruly bunch.  When we placed their food in the cage, they'd grab and start eating our fingers.  It was a free for all.  They now live with a friend of our pet sitters and about 30 other rats.  The girls got mostly Andre's genes although a few have odd things like curly rough patches on their backs and curly whiskers.  Their temperament is totally different.  They take turns getting food and love climbing up our arms out of the cage.  They are real sweeties.  The one that had the large tumor and this one that has the neurological problem both have curly fur.  I guess the other with curly fur will follow soon.

We do have a vet that knows rodents.  What is the best regimen?  I heard steroids, particularly DEX work well.  Will this improve quality of life?  Also, we don't want her to suffer.  She seems content now.  What signs should we look for to know when the time is right?  Also, is there any reason to keep her segregated?  Should we put her mom in with her?

Thanks
Rob

PS-  My father had a pituitary tumor about 20 years ago.  It was successfully removed with surgery.  He was able to grasp food in his paws both before and after.

ANSWER: Hi Again

Glad you looked up Debbie, the rat lady. She is a great lady and I have consulted with her numerous times about chemotherapy for rats etc...
You may have also read on her site that PTs hit females much older than your girl is but again, I would not rule it out. They are less common in males, although they do occur, and several times in the past I have told the Vets that I worked with that they may not be totally accurate when they diagnosed a few male rats with ear infection instead of PTs even though more signs pointed to PT, they kept clinging to that TEXT BOOK MENTALITY instead of going with what is presented right before your very eyes. Also, I have studied rat behavior and know the classic signs.
After the rats passed away, every single one of them showed PTs in the necropsy report. I promise I didn't say "told ya so" but it was tempting. ;-)

Anyhow, let me tell you a thing or two about your rats with the curly hair. I am not sure if you know this but their coat has a name, which is called "rex" coats, and are usually curly/wavy. They also have curly whiskers.  The other rat you mentioned with the peach fuzz? He may be mock hairless but there is also a coat called "double rex" and they have hair but its fuzz and they also tend to "molt" where they lose some fur and it grows back in different places. They have curly whiskers too. You can google them and see photos etc...  You can follow my link on my profile to my website and check out on my site "what is a FUGS" to see one of the most funky rats you have ever seen!!  LOL

Back to your rat...I think she is fine being with the other rats, no need to stress her and cause her immune system to be compromised by stress to possibly make her develop a secondary infection.  Let her be with her cagemates.
I would NOT breed anymore rats.  As you can see, they have bad genetics and her problems are all linked to the rest of the lines....you are only breeding unhealthy rats.  I would locate a reputable breeder and buy my rats from them from now on. At least they can guarantee health and temperament.

I would take the girl to the vet and ask her to be treated for ear infection caused by mycoplasmosis. She should be given baytril and doxycycline for 21 to 30 days plus steroids for inflammation. Most vets shy away from the steroids so if they do, metacam is a decent NSAID that should help too.  This may be simply an ear infection...lets just be positive.
Do you have a vet? I prefer a qualified exotic Vet if you can find one.  I can help locate one if you need...let me know the city your in and other cities that surround you.

Hang in there!

Sandy

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Sandy

My daughter reminded me this morning that the babies are 13 months old.  We're going to take her to the vet.  We'll hope that it's an ear infection, but it really seems like a PT.  My wife, who's a nurse, thought it seemed neurological, but I was holding out for an unhealed injury.  Our vet is not exotic specific, but there is one vet in the practice that has had a lot of rodent experience and she sees all the rats.  Just curious though; are there any exotic specialists near Annapolis Maryland?

Thanks
Rob

Answer
I know this is probably about an hour from you but this woman has a fantastic reputation among the exotic vets.
******

This place is about 39 minutes from Annapolis and would really be worth it to go here!!

Dr. Deborah Deans
Eastern Animal Hospital    
6404 Eastern Avenue
Baltimore MD 21224
Phone:    410-633-8808
Website: www.easternanimalhospital.com


*********

Another clinic about 50 minutes from Annapolis. I drive 45 minutes so don't feel bad! Its worth it to spend the money knowing that the vet you are seeing is a REAL exotic vet and not someone that is interested in them but never took the next step to take the required courses and the state boards for it. Usually these vets do NOT have everything they need to accommodate rodents and small mammals like exotic vets do. That is like taking a newborn baby to a regular doctor that did not stu
Dr. Heather Bowles
Hunt Valley Animal Hospital    
A11206 York Rd
Cockeysville MD 21030
Phone:    410 527 0800
Website: www.huntvalleyanimalhospital.com

***********

This place offers Vets that have a special interest in exotics, but are not certified nor did they complete the extra required courses needed to be an exotic vet. That doesn't mean they don't know much, but they don't usually know as much as someone that did take the extra courses and pass the board exams etc...

*****
Greater  Annapolis Veterinary hospital
1901 Generals Highway
Annapolis, MD  21401
Phone: 410-224-3800
*******

As for knowing when it is time....you will know. If she indeed has a Pituitary adenoma, she will get worse each day to the point she may begin rolling and losing her balance so bad she falls over.  Its no life for her and its not fair to allow her to go through that which of course I Know you wouldn't do that to her either, but it is hard to make that final decision.  Often we hope they go in their sleep...but some rats are stubborn and need a little help from their loved one and the vet.



ADDITIONAL INFO

I found one even BETTER!!!!!!!
About 25 miles from you... You MUST see Dr.Rhody though, not the other vets there.

Dr. Jeffrey Rhody
Lakeside Veterinary CenterLLC    
8693 Cherry Lane
Laurel MD 20707
Phone:    301-498-8387
Website:    www.lakesidevc.com