Spinning mouse

Question

Our mouse Habitat   QUESTION: Hello Natasha,
I did just ask this to Tamarah, but I also have been reading your answers on others. My little mouse Lucille just started spinning this morning, she does get around the cage fine, she just fell asleep actually, ( i was worried she wouldn't be able too) I have seen her eat and drink in the past 2-3 hours. But she just keeps spinning to the right. She was not doing this last night. I have been reading about the inner ear infection possibility.... When we did get her she did have a bit of an issue of figuring how to get down tubes, so we actually changed the whole cage just so she could. (see photo of their "Habitat") When we did that she got around fine. Could this also be the WALTZ thing mice get? She lives with 4 other lady mice, all get along wonderfully all sleep together and play.
If I do get the Tetracycline, how much should I give her and do I have to try and give it to her by hand? She is the only one who hasn't taken seeds from us at all, and I don't want to stress her out. I let these girls live in luxury, worry free. Can i put it in one of the water bottles? What about the other mice? will it effect them if I put it in? there are 3 water bottles for them.  

If this is something she will live all her life with, is it going to drive her crazy? Is it mean to let her live her life full if she is otherwise completely healthy? We love her chirpy chatty nature, we would be sad to see her go, but also don't want her to suffer either! We have had her for about 5 weeks now, we got her and 3 others to be buddies with our really old mouse Anna.  Anna hasn't never been happier with her new friends.

Thanks
Wendy
p.s.
Sorry for the HUGE letter!

ANSWER: Dear Wendy,

I can see that you love, love, love your mice!!!!

Lucille is not a spinning mouse; she would have done that since birth. She could certainly have an ear infection. She could also (oh no!) have a brain tumor. Pituitary tumors are not uncommon in mice. Or she could have had a stroke. And there may be other possibilities that I don't know anything about-- I don't have any medical training-- so a vet visit is always best.

The vet also has access to much better medication. If they decide to give antibiotics, they will probably give you Baytril or Doxycyline, in combination with Amoxicillin. And the vet will very likely not approve of putting the medicine in the water because the dosage is of course impossible to control. However, the vet will probably give you something you have to force on her twice a day for ten days. Still, it's much better. My advice with Tetracycline is mainly because many mice can't get to the vet. Mice are low budget pets, and are often owned by children whose parents don't see the point in spending the money. A vet trip is always best. And again, the vet may be able to tell you that it isn't an infection, and spare Lucille the trauma of the medication.

Your second best option may be to ask this online vet. I should add this link to my profile. I don't know how quickly she answers:

http://www.smallanimalchannel.com/critter-experts/vet/topiclist.aspx

My advice is really third best.  I'm an expert in behavior, not medicine. But as you can see, I get lots of medical questions. So, since the ear infection is the only treatable possibility I would suggest you indeed treat her for that.

When you say she won't take seeds from her, will she let you hold her in your hand? Mice do hate the scruffing for the initial dose, but it really helps. They generally forgive you pretty quickly. Although you will sometimes get a bite from a scared mouse, I myself don't use gloves. I'd rather take the risk. But of course I can't tell you that's how you should do it in case the bite should get infected, which is of course unlikely.

All the mice can take the Tetracycline. And since they have also been exposed to any illness she may have, it's not a bad idea. Here is a quote from when someone asked me about Tetracycline:

"This Tetracycline, which is available in the FISH section of your pet store or aquarium store, either comes in powder, tablet, or capsule form.  If it is a tablet, you will need to crush it into fine powder, which you can do with the back of one spoon against the front of another.  If it is a capsule you will empty the powder out of the capsule.  One capsule is the same as 1/4 flat teaspoon.

"Take one capsule and mix it with a drop or two of water until you have a mustardy paste. Grab the mouse by the scruff (back) of the neck to open its mouth, and try to get a bit of the paste in the mouth. The mouse will struggle a lot and this may be impossible. In any case, smear some on the whiskers and sides, where it can easily wash it off and ingest it.

"Put another capsule's worth in a large water bottle (10-12 oz), or half that in a small water bottle (4-6 oz), and that should be the only source of water for about 10 days. Shake it up well. Change it every other day. Cover the bottle with tin foil so no light can get in. Tetracycline reacts with light."

By the way, it is possible to get many of the same medications a vet will give, from pigeon supply stores. Even the Baytril (Enrofloxacin), which is now illegal for poultry, is possible to get, and I will tell you how if you send me a private question. However, you can't get them quickly enough to be helpful right now without paying as much shipping as the vet may cost you. And again, the dosage is very uncertain, since they are formulated for birds. To be honest, this is what I do. But I can't recommend it, if you can get the correct dosage from the vet. I am telling you this in case you want to get some to keep on hand.

I am going to send this to Tamarah, so she doesn't have to repeat what I have already written. Perhaps she has some other ideas as well.

Best of luck to little Lucille.

squeaks,

Natasha

PS If you would like to friend me on Facebook, my name is Natasha Millikan. Just tell me who you are. You will also be able to meet all of my rodents-- mice, rats, and mouse-sized rats. Just look at my videos under "Meet the Rodents" and "Meet the Rodents 2." Here is the last video I posted of the mice. Of course, their cage doesn't compare with yours!:

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150280127649803




---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hey Natasha!
Thanks for the fast response. I did call my vet, but they haven't returned my call yet. She does let me hold her when I actually pick her up, but I have to kinda slowly chase her, gently, I usually get them when they are in the Habitat part of the cage which makes it much easier to pick them up to put them in their running balls. My two other mice (Dorothy and Anna) let me pick them  up all the time very easily, but Lucille, Lillian and Ginger are still a little shy. All take seeds from my hand except Lucille.

I think I would like to try the  tetracycline, since the Vet is $80 just to see one mouse. I just got some from the fish section. Its in powder packets.  Can put about 1/4 teaspoon or less of the powder in their water? or should I just try and give it to her via mouth first? I do have a little mouth seringe thing that has 0.1 ml all the way to 1.0ml from one of my first mice Wendell, who passed away.
She is sleeping right now with the others, so I will try this when she is awake? or should I just do it now? There are a total of 3 water sources..... I can cut it down to 1 i guess....

Sorry, I will go to that Vet link you sent me too. I am just a little nervous about this, we have had 4 mice die on us in the last year, one who we had for about 2 years and then two little ones that only lasted about 2 months. All leaving Anna behind, our now oldest mouse. Its just getting hard to deal with a mouse that gets sick so fast all the time. Seems too often!
And the Vet isn't cheap, but I guess thats just they way it is :(

I would also like to know where I can get the Baytril if a future problem will arise, But I will get the proper dosage from a vet.

I also found you on facebook and sent you a little message :) You will see a few albums of all the mice I have had in the last year. I will check out your little critters tooo.

Wendy

Answer
Dear Wendy,

It's fine that you have to slowly chase her. Thats what I do with mine-- I just don't bother to train them to walk onto my hand. It depends on the cage though. When I have a cage I can't get my hand into, they have to learn!

It's OK to wake up a mouse. Just be gentle, as I'm sure you are.

As stated above, one capsule is 1/4 teaspoon, so that is a good amount to go into a large/medium water bottle. I start with a single dose to kick-start the healing, and then put more in the water.

On FB maybe you can tell me what went wrong with the other mice and I can help.

squeaks,

Natasha