My Appy gelding

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Hi.  My name is Natalie Bollen.  I'm 14 years old and have owned and been around horses all my life.  I've taken 5 years of actual lessons, and was started under the Spanish Riding School methods...all the important horsemanship that, in my opinion, every horse owner should know. I have been seriously riding for 7 years (I don't consider riding a shetland pony bareback around a yard when I was 4 serious riding) and I currently own two horses.  My question is consulting my Appy gelding (Tolkien).  I have had Tolkien for 4 years, and he's a true go-anywhere-do-anything guy.  He is 19 years old, but he acts like a hyperactive three year old Arab stud.  He is a retired barrelracer, and when I take him to the beach he acts like he's back in the arena again.  I live on the WA coast, and the only place I have to ride is the beach (not that I'm complaining!) and this is the only place I have ever ridden him where he acts this way.  When Tolkien gets to the beach with a rider on his back, he is completely, 100% deaf of his rider, and he does it his way, which IS NOT fun.  He prances, dances, bounces, hops up and down, canters in place, twirls, holds his head painfully high, and bites the  bit.  He has never scared me with this behavior, but he scares others and makes them scowl at me for treating him "this way"(honestly, I am a very confident rider and I do not let horses get away with bad behavior) and all I'm doing is not letting him take off. Well, when you do this with Tolkien on the beach, it makes it look like your the bad guy, because he gets dripping in sweat with anxiety and he throws his head violently, while prancing and averaging about 30 1-foot rears per minute, and I'm sick of it.  I want to be able to take him for a canter and then walk him to cool him off.  He doesn't walk, though...he gets more sweaty and exhausted than he would if I just kept cantering.  It's ridiculous, and it's gotten to the point where I can't even enjoy riding him anymore, and I don't like it.  I've been asking around for suggestions to solve this problem, and I've tried EVERYTHING.  I've tried changing his bit, his saddle, his bridle, (none of his tack is causing him any discomfort in any way because I've taken him to trails using the exact same tack and he's an absolute angel...a totally different horse on the trails), changing his feed, asking the farrier about any discomfort in his feet (he has never worn shoes in his life and has some of the toughest feet our farrier has ever seen), taking him out and going no faster than a walk for a whole ride to calm him down...it took about two minutes on the beach before he was dripping in sweat, and I've tried lunging sessions with him at the beach.  I thought the lunging would have a positive effect because he only acts this way with a rider, so if I could just keep him at a walk without a rider at the beach for a couple of weeks maybe that would calm him down, but as soon as I got back up on him, he was the exact same way as before.  I also tried just riding him on quiet roads (he acts perfect everywhere except the beach) for a while and seeing if it would calm him down, but nope.  Not at all.  Is he just back in the barrelracing days, or does the wide open space of the beach overexcite him?  It's actually almost gotten to the point where he won't walk anywhere.  Please help me.  Any suggestions are appreciated.  Thanks.

         Nat  
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Hi Natalie,

OK, we have a couple questions.  This is both me, Lyn, and Mary Lou.  
1)Define what is "fine" on the lunge line at the beach?  
2)What is he like generally in leading both at home, trails or on the beach - as far as ground handling?  Who walks whom?  
3)Do you know his history of owners and if they ever rode him at the beach or were they "cowboy" style riders - gallop all over?
4)Have you ever tried stuffing (with care) alot of cotton in his ears (used with some horses in certain sports)- the ocean has quite an array of sounds that may just set him off with a rider?  
5)Have you tried blinders to see if it may be a vision problem - it will limit his vision only ahead?
6)When he acts up, does he run "down" the beach, "away" from the water or back to the trailers (unless you ride to the beach from home)?
7)In the beginning of your post you mention he acts like a 3 year old Arab stud?  What exactly do you mean by this?
8)He's a gelding, how long ago was he gelded, was he entire?
9)Who are you riding with on the beach?  Are they riders who only are willing to walk when you need them to and/or wait patiently for you?  Do they take off down the beach leaving you (at any pace)?  What are the manners of their horses (quiet/ansy)?  Do you ride with them regularly or just at the beach?  

We'll quit now but this will give a better start to looking deeper into your horse's situation for us.  This is not something that is answered with one post.  Please answer these questions in depth as completely as possible.  Good luck.  Will get back to you as soon as we hear from you.

1)  What do you mean?  I didn't use the word fine...I don't really understand the question.  By lunging at the beach I was just trying to get it through to him that he doesn't have to freak out at the beach just because he's got a rider on his back.  I wanted him to see what it was like just being at the beach without a rider on his back to freak him out and get him excited, so he would maybe calm down and see how he can be calm at the beach.
2)  He is an absolute jem on the ground...he's the most lovable guy ever! (I've never known a more lovable horse...he nuzzles you and gives you kisses all the time when your with him on the ground.  If your in the barn he never leaves your side and he loves attention.  We call him the big dog)  He's  very gentle and calm when being lead.  He had no manners when I got him because his old owners barely ever touched him, but he learned very quickly and now has the best ground manners I know of.  He's never kicked or bitten anyone since I've had him...not even the shoer, but he does like to nuzzle the shoer's butt with his upper lip when the shoer bends over to do his front feet.
3)  Sadly, I know nothing of Tolkien's past except that he was a barrel racer and that his owners before me barely ever rode him or handled him, but they did love him very much.  They only used him for some trail riding and packing, and they NEVER galloped him.  He was always out in a huge field, getting fat off of the grass.  When I got him, he had been ridden like three times in the past two years, and he was very fat and out of shape.  He was calm at the beach for like the first couple of months, until he got into good shape and loved to run.  I know that he isn't registered either...he's got a blanket of spots, so he's obviously very Appy, but he's got to have something else in him because of his body and speed and agility.  I've been told that he's most likely a Thoroughbred cross, even though he's only 15 hands.
4)  I've never tried stuffing his ears with cotton and I don't want to.  It's not the sound of the ocean...he's loves the water and would rather go through a river then over a bridge.
5)  I've never tried blinders, but I don't think that would help.  He would still be able to hear everything and he would know just as well where he was and he would act the same way.
6)  I do ride him to the beach from home.  He doesn't run in any direction except the direction I want him to go...he has never taken off with me; he's tried, but never succeeded.  I don't let him get away with anything except prancing, and there's nothing I can do to stop him from doing that except get off and walk beside him, but the whole point is so I don't have to do that, because it's no fun.  But to answer your question a little better, if I were to just drop the reins and let him go, he would dead gallop in whatever direction he happened to be facing.  He's not barn-sour, just walking-sour.  He's also not afraid of anything...as I said, he loves the water, and aside from an occasional umbrella blowing in the wind, he doesn't spook at all.  He's also doesn't bolt when he spooks, he just kind of jumps to the side.  So if he were to get truly scared, he quickly back away from whatever was scaring him, but he would never take off away from it.  I see what your saying...like maybe there's something at the beach that's he's constantly trying to take flight from, but he's not that way at all.  My mare is very much that way (Arab...), but not him.
7)  By saying that I just meant that he will not calm down.  It's like he thinks that he's really hot stuff, like an Arab or a Thoroughbred or something, because he's so showy and prancy.  But he's an Appy cross, and even if he did have Thoroughbred or Arab (nah, not Arab, he's not graceful or pretty enough...hehe) then that would not give him an excuse to act this way just because of his being hotblooded.  I think the problem is more related to him being hotheaded.
8)  I have no idea when he was gelded or who did it or anything like that.  All I know is that he is a gelding and that his owners before us only had him for five years or something.  He wasn't gelded with them and he didn't barrel race with them.  So, being 19 now, he was gelded and barrel raced at age 10 at the oldest.  His old owners never said anything about him having any stallion-like characteristics, but he did raise his lip to my peeing mare once a few years ago.  But hey, she's really good looking, so...
9)  I only ride with neighbors who have had horses all their lives and would never develop any bad habits like this one in any horse.  I also ride with friends, and they're just as smart when it comes to this.  When I ride any horse with anyone our canters are like 5 minutes long and our walks are like 8 minutes long.  The horses we are on are always comfortable with the amount of exercise we give them during rides...I would never overwork any horse I'm on, and neither would anyone I ride with. They don't go ahead of me or anything...we know how to ride in groups and we do it the right way.  Tolkien does act much more excited when he's with other horses, but that's just the way he is.  When I ride with other people their's no difference in the ride except their presence, and that's what riles him up...nothing but them being there.

I hope I answered your questions well...I'm looking forward to hearing from you again.  I'll answer any more questions you have.  Ttyl.

         Nat

Answer -
Natalie,

Sorry it's taken a couple of days to get back to you.  Holidays, you know.

Ok, your answer helped some.  What we were looking for on the lunge question was how was he different, or was he, when you lunged him vs. rode him.  Did he settle on the lunge or not essentially.  How is he to ride elsewhere?  Does he settle and do as you ask on the trails otherwise?  From what you say about him I suspect he's an Appendix App, similar to Appendix QH.  Means he's got Thoroughbred in him, how much is anyone's guess.  

Had a friend who had one of them and he was very wired.  Part of the other horse's problem was the amount of grain he was getting.  That may be an issue with Tolkien too.  I don't know how you feed him but if he's getting a lot more grain than he needs that can be a large part of his problem.  Remember, horses evolved over millions of years on forage.  Grain falls in the category of a necessary evil.  Something you give them when they cannot get enough calories from the hay/grass/forage they have available for the work they have to do.  You didn't say what you were feeding him, and whether he's stall kept or on pasture with a run-in shed.  I suspect he's simply got too much energy and the beach is wide-open space and simply beckons him to run and run.  

I ride and train distance horses so your style of riding, 5 min. doing one thing, 8 min. doing another, is foreign to me.  I go out and work at a trot for miles.  I takes my horse about 20 min. to trot 5 mi.  When I take her out to canter, it's for 2-4 mi. at a time.  I don't measure my ride time in minutes but in miles.  

Let me know how you are feeding Tolkien and what his housing arrangements are.  I think some changes there might make a big difference.  You said he wasn't like this when you first got him.  That was a big clue. He was coming off pasture - low-calorie/low energy feed and probably 24 hr. turnout.  Stuff a horse full of high-energy grain and shut him in a stall and it's going to be hard for him not to be extremely "cheerful" when he does get out.  

Did you get my followup?  I didn't get a receipt saying that it was sent.
Answer -
Natalie,

I got the one message where you answered the questions we had asked in the 1st post.  But we didn't ask for info on his feeding and where and how you keep him so that's why I asked for that this time.  So let me know how you feed him, what and how much and what his stable situation
is.  OK?

O jeese...I wrote a huge long thing to you on just this last one but I didn't send it right so it all got deleted.  Wow...that sucks.  

Anyways, Tolkien is a jem on the trails and on the ground.  The lunge line didn't calm him down at all.  He is very gentle and loveable...not bossy at all except on the beach.  He doesn't act bad anywhere else.  I'd trust him with a beginner on his back anywhere except the beach, and no one has ever been frightened by him on the ground...everyone laughs when he gives them kisses and rubs his head against them.  He also loves to nuzzle the farrier's butt with his upper lip when the she bends over to do his front feet.  Our farrier always tucks in her shirt before she trims him because he likes to use his upper lip to lift up her shirt about 6 inches and wiggle his lip on her bare back.  He's learned that this will sometime tickle her and make her stop for a second and pay attention to something other than his feet.  He has never bitten or kicked anyone as long as I've had him, and he's not the kind of horse to ever do that sort of thing even if he was being threatened or frightened...he's a big dog, such a great guy.  I'd trust this horse with my life, he just loses his head when he gets to the beach.  

He gets straight alfalfa all year long and only gets grain in the summer.  I only ride him about once every two weeks in the winter, spring, and fall because of the weather, school, and sports, so it's just a waiste of money and enery to give him grain during these times.  I also have my Arab mare Chantel who is a very picky eater (very finnicky... she's sort of anorexic and she isn't easy to keep fat...such a woman) and so in the summer they get Omelene (I'm sure you know exactly what it is but just in case it's a very rich grain for eventing horses to keep their weight on)and she loves it, so that's what we use.  They got bored of Equine Senior and Chantel started losing weight, so I switched them.  Tolkien wasn't any different on the beach before we changed his grain, after we changed it, or now while he isn't getting any.  Before he came to me he was on pasture grass and grass hay and was very fat and out of shape.  He had no problem with that unrich feed, though.  The grass wasn't even green, either, but he ate and ate so he was huge.  I tried switching him to grass hay a long time ago...still absolutely no difference in his behavior at the beach.  They don't have access to grass (Tolkien has never had grass here...I got him a few months after Chantel, and so by the time he got here is was dirt), but they are never skinny or fat...they're by far the most pampered horses in this county. It has nothing to do with the feed...I've tried like five different really unrich feeds to put him on and NOTHING changes his behavior at the beach.  That's not it.

They've got a very cute cozy little barn where they always have access to bone dry ground and plenty of room to maneuver without either of them getting stuck out in the rain.  They've also got a high-ground corral where it is never muddy, and that's where their water is.  Chantel's got a little back area behind the barn where Tolkien isn't supposed to go but he does sometimes and gets himself stuck because the only way out is right where Chantel is standing.  They also have a one-acre pasture that is very muddy in the winter, but, as I said, they ALWAYS have access to a very dry and cozy barn (the barn is hand-built by my dad with a steel roof and is perfectly designed for two horses that get along) and the pasture is plenty big enough for them to run.  The have access to all of these areas 24 hours a day.  He's never cooped up in any way.

Answer
Natalie,

First off let me apologize for taking so long to get back to you.  This has just been a hectic few days here.  Anyhow, to get to your problem.  I've racked my brain and picked the brains of a number of very good horseman friends of mine for suggestions and we're all coming up blank.  I honestly don't have any more suggestions for you to try aside from simply not riding him on the beach.  I really hate to say that but this is something that has happened inside of his brain.  At his age I haven't a clue.  Unless you're willing to try an animal communicator to find out what he's thinking.

Me, I would take him out on the trails for about 10 mi. at a trot, then take him to the beach but I just don't think you're into that kind of riding.  Get him tired, really tired, first and then see what happens.  You are doing everything right with all you've done so far.  You have my congratulations on that.  

I wish I could offer you better advice.