Rattie passing

Question
QUESTION: Hi,
My 1.5 year boy Brambles has just come off several strings of antibiotics for myco, none of which made any difference to his myco rattleing. Anyway, over the past two days he's become extremely weak (too weak to stand, or hold his head up while eating). I'm debating euthanasia, as the vet told me there was nothing more they could do at this point. I can't get in until Wednesday (which is a 2.5 hour drive away) He doesn't seem to be in much pain, just no appetite, he's too weak to move. He's sleeping all the time. I'm wondering if I let him pass at home if he'll do it peacefully, or if he's really in a lot of pain (or will be before passing) and I should put him through the car ride to end it.

Thanks for your advice, I appreciate it.

ANSWER: I am sorry about Brambles....it sounds like he had more than myco, probably scarring or the lungs or possibly antibiotic resistant bacteria combined with a virus.


One last thing, though....was amakacin used via a nebulizer? Often this brings a rat back from deaths door. The little guy probably has been through enough already but when I hear a vet say that they have done all they can do it always makes me wonder if they really have.  Since I have no idea what meds were used I thought I would ask.

Also if your rat is having trouble breathing I would euthanize him so he doesnt suffocate. This is often how it happens in the end which is horrible for the rat to have to endure.  I wish that I could say they would fall fast asleep in their bed and keep sleeping but usually it doesnt happen this way. They often run around in a panic because they cannot breathe and want held and comforted yet they continue to panic till they take their last breath.  Its heartbreaking and something you do not want to see. If he is that bad, I would ask the vet to give you a dose of valium for him to get him calm and even help him sleep deeper, and bring him in.  Be sure the vet puts the rat under anesthesia before euthanizing if a cardiac stick is used in which most of the time it is.

I hate that I have to talk so frank about this but I want what is best for you and your fine boy. He is just still so young....which is why I wanted to ask what all he has been treated with.

hang in there

Sandra

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks for the quick response.
He was on a round of doxycycline, then a round of zithromax and doxy. No amakacin. When I take him to the vet on wednesday is that something I should insist on trying? at this point, he hasn't had anything to eat or drink for two days. I don't want to just drag this out, but at the same time I don't want to let him go before his time.

Moara

ANSWER: I know what you mean about not wanting to drag it out yet not wanting to be premature and put him down.  I had to face this not even a week ago with one of my big bucks.  He has had myco off and on for a year and finally I noticed he had dropped weight, from 800 grams to 700 grams which is significant. His breathing was rapid and he was weak. I knew it was time.  He was at deaths door many times before and had been kept at the clinic on oxygen and was nebulized amakacin and albuterol for a few days and given fluids etc...and bounced back 100%.  But he relapsed again and it was a little harder getting him back on track.  This was the worst he had been and he was not responding to the aggressive medications and finally I had no choice but to let him go.  Its hard to make that call and only YOU can do it with the advice of the vet.  You know if your rat has had all they can handle.
However, I always ask what the treatments were in hopes something was missed along the way and perhaps a new treatment plan would work.
Try offering baby food on your fingers....see if your rat licks it from you. Fruids, veggies....anything at this point. Canned ensure or canned pedialyte in a syringe....even koolaid at this point...any liquids are ok.  The doxy is weak, and zithromax is an OK drug but baytril is better in many cases.  The vet, if not real up to par with rats, may be unsure about amakacin and even skeptical so please suggest he refer to this link for info on treating myco related pneumonia. These actual instructions were written by a DVM so no worries that someone that is not a professional wrote them.
The following treatment is  recommended by Dr. Michael Hutchinson, DVM; Animal General, Cranberry Township, PA.

Here is the link. Scroll down for all the info on the medications to try.  Its worth a shot.  Also instead of gentocin amakacin can be used.

Here is what I wanted you to copy for the vet and it is found at this link:
http://ratguide.com/health/lower_respiratory/pneumonia.php


A treatment regimen for serious and advanced respiratory illness

The following treatment regimen for use in rats with advanced lung infection or more serious respiratory illness with Mycoplasma as the suspected agent , is recommended by Dr. Michael Hutchinson, DVM; Animal General, Cranberry Township, PA., and is based on his experience treating rats and current literature:

     enrofloxacin (Baytril) 15 mg/kg BID, PO (oral) for 10-30 days
     doxycycline 5 mg/kg BID PO (oral) for 10-30 days
     nebulization for 15 minutes, 2 to 3 times a day, for 14 days, with the following mixture:
     8 mL sterile saline
     0.5mL gentocin injectable 100 mg/mL
     0.5mL Albuterol 0.083% Inhalation *Note: excess mixture for nebulization can be refrigerated for up to 3 days.

     dexamethasone 1 mg/lb BID, then weaned down as follows:
     1 mg/lb BID injectable or PO (oral) for 3 days
     1 mg/lb SID for 3 days
     0.5 mg/lb SID for 3 days
     0.5 mg/lb orally every other day, three doses

     Other veterinary recommended reduction schedules for dexamethasone may also be used.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Well, the poor little guy passed away on Tuesday, before I could get him to the vet. I think the lesson that I've taken away from this is to be much more agressive in treating respiratory distress from the start.
My follow up question has to do with my other rattie, who's living alone now. Should I get him a friend? or would he have caught whatever antibiotic resistant stuff Brambles had, which would then be passed on to the new guy? I'd hate for him to be lonely, but at the same time, I don't want a perpetual cycle of very ill rats (I'm never buying petshop again).
Also, he's been sneezing occasionally since I've gotten him, and has been on a round of doxy and a round of zithromax to no effect. Is this something that I should try to knock out, or is it just a chronic symptom of the myco that can't be gotten rid of completely. There's no wheezing, just the occasional sneeze, and loud sniffing when he's trying to smell what's on the other side of a closed door.
I really appreciate you sharing your experience. I'm not trying to use you instead of my vet, it's just then when I've brought them in to her she's said "give me a call when you're worried and I'll write you an antibiotic prescription" only apparently I don't know when to start worrying.

Answer
I am really sorry about the loss of your little guy.

I would, however, get the other one on baytril and doxy for now. If you do decide to get another rat, I would do this:

Find a decent breeder with a good reputation and buy not one but two rats.
You will obviously do a 3 week quarantine in a different air space during this time.  
The intros will start and the reason I say to get two rats is because they will have each other and if they are younger they will play with each other rather than drive the older rat nuts.

As for the antibiotic resistant illness your rat MAY have had, it could also have been from scarring of the lungs or blisters of the lungs too. It is just hard to say. As hard to believe as this sounds, alot of this stuff is not contagious. It really also depends on the immune system. I lost a great rat last week as I said earlier, and his cagemate is fine. Often, one rat out of the colony will be [;aqued with respiratory infections and the others will be just fine. It really also depends on the immune system too. Although myco is something rats are born with there are ways to try to keep it from developing such as keeping the rat healthy by proper food, proper cage (not a tank) and the right litter. This of course is not always the answer but at least your not contributing to the things that can irritate the rats respiratory tract and cause myco to develop.          
I have an entire page on my website dedicated to mycoplasma so maybe if you check it out there may be something your missing...its hard to say.

Here is the URL :
http://www.freewebs.com/crittercity/thequarantinepage.htm