Rat with Open Wound Post Surgery

Question
QUESTION: Hi, My female rat had a tumour removed yesterday from just where her leg joins her body. I watched her all and and all night, but didn`t take her with me when I visited the toilet(!) and she pulled her stitches out. I took her back to the vet this morning, who said there wasn`t enough skin to stitch it back together and to just make sure she doesn`t interfere with it. He gave her an injection (Rimadyl) for pain, as she was very uncomfortable and hadn`t slept at all (neither had I!). I`m trying desperately to keep her away from the wound, but I`m going to need to sleep at some point and I`m very concerned that she`ll do herself some real damage. She`s also on 0.2ml of Baytril a day for 7 days.
I`d like to know your thoughts on whether the vet should restitch the wound or not. It`s really gaping and open. There are a couple of spots of blood on her bedding, but it isn`t "bleeding".
Alternatively, ways I can keep her from messing with it. A collar isn`t any good as she gets very very distressed with one. She`s currently eating and drinking normally and going to the toilet ok too.
Thank you!

ANSWER: What is the vet talking about, there isnt enough skin for closure?  How did he do it in the first place?  He could use staples.....but obviously the vet isnt thinking on the same lines as he should be.....nuff said about that before I start ranting...esp about what he gave your rat for pain, which is nothing more than what is used for DOGS with ARTHRITIS!  ::SIGHS::

I hate Vets sometimes....

If he would have stitched your rat properly the first time, say, under the skin where no stitches are exposed, and given her proper pain medication, like torbugesic, rather than an anti-inflammatory that is not even approved for use in rats in the united states, your rat would not have pulled the stitches out. If you read my website, sandyscrittercity.com and check out the sections on surgery, proper procedures for stitching and pain relief, answers to WHY rats usually remove their stitches (they HURT because they are pulled too tight and not given the right pain relief, for starters) other times they do this because the vet tells the rat owner to isolate the rat from her cagemates (for fear the other rats will rip the rats stitches out, which is pretty rare, never seen it happen in all my experience and I bet I have had more  experience with rats than many vets that see rats do) so the rat that is isolated from her cagemates is stressed and bored, and VIOLA! They discover something new, STITCHES! and away they pull....
Anyhow, I have a case study  about a little rat that would not leave her stitches alone till finally the vet used staples and she was ok.  However, I am shocked your vet just let her go like this) no wait...no, I am not shocked, to be honest...not sure why I said that.

Let me make you feel better though, because obviously, your very worried.  I am just glad your rat is ok and recovered from the anesthesia  (still shaking head as to why there wasnt enough skin for closure before but now all of a sudden there isnt...he must not know what staples and  surgical glue is?!!!)  

Think of a mammary tumor more like a wart.  They are non invasive....they are subcutaneous...they are not deep.  Providing that your vet cauterized any blood vessels, if there were any involved, they obviously stopped bleeding or you would have problems long before this.  Anyhow, your rats incision is not very deep at all. The tumor did not go down deep enough that the vet would cut her open to the point you can see exposed organs.  The most you will see is tissue, maybe muscle...but no major organs like intestines or kidneys and liver will be exposed, so don't worry.  If this were a spay, I would be very concerned though, but its a mammary tumor removal.  What you can do is call the vet back, ask him why all of a sudden there is no skin for closure when there was before (I am dying to hear the vets  response, to be honest! Second, ask why your rat isn't on REAL pain relief, like a narcotic pain medication that is APPROVED for rat use rather than an arthritis pain relief medication meant for canine use. I swear its true, GOOGLE it for more info if you want to know more about it and ask the vet why he didnt use a staple or three or perhaps some surgical glue for good measure?

Meanwhile, keep her clean and dry. remove all wood shavings if you use aspen.  Put down some clean white paper towels. This will monitor any blood, although you will only see a bit of seeping from the wound you should NOT see any drippings oozing from her at all.
She probably will lick around it herself but she probably wont pick at it now that the overly pulled too tight  stitches are gone.  I guess its good he didnt stitch her again, for her probably would do it too tight AGAIN and she would simply rip them out again....causing you even more grief.

I hate to sound like a Vet hater #I have very good friends that are vets, trust me, I am not a hater) but I have been reading for the past week now nothing but horror stories about incompetent vets left and right...some are causing unnecessary death in these poor rats, others are adding to or allowing the rats suffering...this is just one more story that got under my skin. Just to read that about no skin for closure......that just got to me. Ridiculous!

I would call the vet if  he is open Sunday, and just ask those few things I suggested you ask. Its not being rude to ask. These are totally legit questions and you have the right to know. You are paying your vet, he isnt paying YOU. He works for YOU...everyone needs to keep that in mind when it comes to vets and being shy to ask too many questions.  Your the reason for his fancy house and sporty car and expensive dinners at fancy restaurants....and your the reason his children can also go to college and become a Vet or a Doctor or.....well you get my drift.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks for the info, very much appreciated!  This is actually her second lump - the first one was removed at the same surgery, just by a different vet and she had absolutely no problems whatsoever. Admittedly, it was by her front leg and this is by her back leg, but she was completely different the first time.  Slept nearly all the first 24 hours and was perfectly ok.  This time she didn't sleep at all.  Strangely enough, she's sleeping like a log now - I'm guessing that's coz her stitches aren't pulling! She did have glue on there, but she picked it off.

They're not open on Sunday, but I do have a follow up appointment on Monday morning, so will definitely ask those questions.  He said he'd given her enough painkiller for 3 days, but from what you say Rimadyl isn't much use at all.  He gave her 20 ml. Would she be able to have a real painkiller if she's had that?

I just wanted to check that she's ok to clean it. Obviously I stop her each time she tries, but if I go to bed, will it be ok if she does? I'm soooo tired, haha!! It does look quite deep and the wound is quite big, as the lump was quite big, but it just looks like skin tissue and it isn't bleeding.  She's got paper towels which I'm changing every time she pees, so it's all clean.  What do you think?

Thanks again for helping me out! I was in tears when I saw it properly coz it looks so awful and I feel useless to help her :-(

ANSWER: How are things going?  Has it started to heal ok?

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hiya,

I took her back yesterday morning and saw a different vet, who of course couldn't comment on the decisions made by the chap on Saturday (always look after your own!!).  She had a look at it and says it looks like the edges are turning necrotic.  She is going back on Thursday morning to see the surgeon who did the work, who will decide whether to remove the necrotic tissue or not.  At the moment, it doesn't smell, so don't think it's infected.

Smudge is eating and drinking well, taking her Baytril and Echinacea very well too and eating probiotic yoghurt.  She had a play with her cage mate, Pepper, last night and they had a lovely time.  She seems to be sleeping alot, which can't be altogether bad as I'm sure they heal when they sleep, just like we do.  If there's anything else you think I should be giving her, please let me know!

Will keep you up to date on Thursday and thank you so much for asking :-)

Answer
The necrotic tissue is simply dead tissue...which means there is no blood flowing through to keep the tissue healthy.  I hate to see them put her out for this when it  should have been done right before....

Ok I will shut up.  I sound so ugly and unpleasant lately, even my good friend who is a vet noticed and called me "vet hater!"  LOL  I am NOT a vet hater, I respect them and all people that are in the medical profession, human or animal.....but darn it, do it right or let someone else do it rather than put the animal through a bunch of bull!