First Sheltie...Basically first dog....

Question
Thank you very much, I'm moving very soon but as soon as I can I will look into a prong collar.  I've read nearly every question and answer over the last 3 days in the Sheltie catagory, but the more I learn the more questions I have. Herding instinct...how soon does it really present itself in Sheltie pups?  Mine will be 12 weeks old in 4 days. My daughters favorite game is tag, and she has started this with our puppy. It starts out seemingly as just a game, but eventually ends up with the tot exhasted and the puppy nipping, jumping and barking to get her to keep going. I'm wondering if this is part herding or if it's just play between "litter mates" How can I tell the differnce? If it is dominance play how do I teach/help the tot become the dominant member over the pup? If it's herding how do I teach the pup that the child is part of the "pack" ? I try to interced before things escillate and with nipping I use stern NO-DON'T BITE's and clapping. I usually only let them fo this for a short time and have my daughter get a favorite puppy toy for a game of tug-o-war, sometimes it takes a bit of coaxing to have them both change play directions. The 2 get along wondefully well, the pup allows the tot to hold her, or will sit in her lap on the floor, and jumps up on her bed of a morning to wake her up. They play well together most of the day until evening and then both are tightly wound up before finally winding down before bed.

The tag games with the cat are differnt. I can see that the dog accepts the cat as being dominant,(the cat is 3 so still young enough to be playful) she still paws at, tries to nip the tail and yaps at the cat but rolls to a belly up postion and waves her paws at the cat. So far it's chasing/tag and batting at each other. No actual wrestling matches yet. She's slow to stop a game of tag no matter who she plays with, but it seems she shows the cat a more submissive nature.

I've had experience with dogs, but not with puppy/young child interactions...there is deffinatly a differnce in the behavior when these 2 play together verses how the pup plays with the rest of us (I also have a 13yr old son). I've tried to have the 2 play fetch (by day 2 the pup was consistant at returning with the ball) She will go after the ball no matter who throws it, but only gives it to me or my husband, she'll stay just out of reach of the kids. The only way the game works is if the child is beside me or in my lap. I figure in time this will change and she will give the ball to whom ever is tossing it and telling her to "fetch".

Pretty much my main concern is the pack order, while I know in wolves the Alpha's are the breeders, and there are others that are nurse maids/babysitters...do these sit above the young in the pack or still fall below in the order of things? I know that the type of dog I have is very loyal, and protective but does this hold true for other more dominant members or only those below in the pack or just those she feels falls under "job" and those she "herds"... what signs do I watch for? I thought alot of this stuff wouldn't come up until later like closer to 6 months of age...maybe I'm reading to much into things and it's just puppy play.

Thanks for all the adive, both to me and others, many of the commnets have been very helpful.

Amy
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Followup To

Question -
When I was a pre-teen a neighbor had a Sheltie and 2 small children.This wonderful dog watched over those kids constantly, keeping them from reaching the sidewalk when playing in the yard. Plus they are beautiful animals, I fell in love with the breed and have wanted one since. For the last 6 months the husband and I have debated getting a dog. This was a very short period of time for him. (took him 3 years to decide where he wants to live when he leaves the Navy) After finding faults with nearly every breed, too big too hyper, too agressive, too stubborn...ect. I said why not look at Shetland Sheepdogs. Needless to say it was love at first sight for him, and after he read about them he was more convinced that this was the perfect dog for us. Loyal, smart, active, loving...ect.

Then he decided Now verses later was better, so I have had a new pup for 4 weeks. She is an angel, and as smart as I had hoped. She is already nearly potty trained, but we do have occasional accidents, usually when I'm busy with dinner, or she is busy playing tag with the cat or fetch with the kids, these have no warning at all she'll go from playing running to squatting and peeing in a blink.

Leash training is another story. She pulls in the direction "she" wants to go but turns and tosses her head fighting if it isn't the way she wants to go. I try to distract her from her choosen course, and if it fails I pick her up. Usually it's because she wants to chase the kids that are playing. (we are in an apartment for a few more days) When she's especially wound up, usually after a nap, she loves to jump up and nip my pants just above the knees. To stop this I shorten the leash and hold my arm out straight at shoulder length so that she can't reach me. Other times she wants to bite the tops off the dandielions whether they are yellow or have gone to seed. I've been quick to either stop her or remove them from her mouth but still worry that she'll get sick from them. I really need some leash training tips please.

With biting while playing we are using redirection, 'arwarps' and squirt bottles (when she is playing too rough with the 4 year old), loud claps and stern "No's" These techniques seem to be working and we spend less time telling her no and more time having fun. I think I'm spending more time training the 4 year old on how to play properly with the dog, than I do with teaching the pup how to play nice now.

Sorry this is getting lengthy, but one more thing not a concern just an oddity. The Pup has an obsession with whistling. If I whistle the usual here dog whistle she'll come see me but doesn't always come all the way, but if I whistle a random tune (which I'm prone to do without realizing it) she goes crazy. Scratching at my leg or trying to jump in my lap. If she's already on my lap she jumps up and is nose to nose with me. Not sure why this style of whistling gets such a reaction, and even though I try not to old habits are hard to break and I don't realize I'm doing it until she's spazing out.

Here's a pic of our Precious new member the day we brought her home. (and please don't hate me I bought her from local pet store, but not before I did extensive research and grilled the owner and staff) She is AKC registered, with a pedigree that goes back 5 gens, and Sire was DNA tested to be sure. She was from a breeder in Kansas and I picked her up the day after she arrived.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a313/simbody872/Kids/100_0547.jpg

Again sorry for such a book, I'm a new dog owner and while I think I'm getting the right info and doing the right things, there are so many techniques out there. I want a good dog, a happy dog and a happy family so I welcome any and all advice.

Thanks

Amy




Answer -
Hi Amy,

What a great picture!  I think you are very right that kids need more training on how to play with puppies than puppes do.  

This leash question is amazingly simple.  Obviously the standard leash is not getting the point across.  It is time to use the prong style.  She will only pull a little and the prong will correct her.

BTW: Dandelions are not toxic to dogs or humans.

As for the whistling, the only thing I can think of is that she is likely good stock.  Whistling is one of the ways that a shepard will communicate to his dogs.  If she is that responsive to your whistles, I'd suggest training her to both hand signals and whistles.

Biting is an age-old problem.  Keep up the good work.  If my hand is bitten I push it into their mouth until the puppy pulls back while saying "NO-DON'T BITE".  Also remember not to use her name when punishing.  Always use "DOG" or "GIRL" or something generic or neutral but consistent like that.

As for how you opened the question, I don't hate you for where you bought the pup.  I just don't trust pet stores until I see the conditions of the mother with my own eyes and you shouldn't either. Just don't worry about that now and enjoy your pup.  However DO NOT go recomending to people to buy from a store because it is almost unheard of to find quality humane breeders selling at pet stores.

Hope that helps!

'sneezes
Dave

Answer
Amy,

No, you aren't reading too much into the behavior, you are seeing it as I would.

Almost anything a Sheltie does could be called a herding trait (to those of us without sheep that is).  Yes, puppies show herding tendencies.  Nipping is definitely a herding tool, do what you can to curb it in play.

The one who feeds is likely pack leader.  Make sure the pup knows that your daughter takes precedence over the pup.  The cat can fight for it's own place.  Tug of war is not a very good game when establishing pack order, try to train fetch instead.

The cat is apparently a solid litter mate.  I wouldn't worry about it.  The puppy falling on her back is a good sign.

I think I've covered all these questions for now.  Ask me anything!

'sneezes
Dave