new dog (8 months old) growling at my son, our kitten, 2nd post

Question
Hi Jill,

Thank you very much for your fast and obviously well educated and experienced reply. I have taken everything you suggested on board  and no-one will be lying on his bed or giving free cuddles, food etc.

Is this the correct way to re-post? if not just let me know how to do it.

I believe I did instigate this behaviour by the bone inside thing, that was definitely the starting point, there had been no sign whatsoever before this.

I can't be 100% sure the young woman I got him off didn't lie to me I guess, all I can judge it on is that when I went to their home to meet Zeus for the first time he was inside the home(and obviously very comfortable there) there was an entire male Maltese (a dog who regularly visited) who was definitely the alpha. There was an 8 year old boy (the womans son) a 6 month old baby and her 2 nieces aged about 5 and 7, there was no tension in the house from the adults or the kids, it just seemed like everything was pretty harmonious and "as per usual" to me, the kids were flitting about and being loud and high energy and Zeus seemed very relaxed and used to it.

He is a nervous dog with new people and places, no doubt about that. I tell anyone meeting him for the first time to completely ignore him and pretend he isn't there, to just go about their business, he will come up and sniff them and check them out and then he is generally fine and wants to hang out with them etc. Coming into work has been great for him cos everyone is really casual, comfortable with dogs and we are always busy so there are people in and out of the backyard and office where Zeus hangs out doing their work not at all interested in him and so it is him coming up to then going "hi how are you" often he gets a quick "hi Zeus" and maybe a pat as they pass but that's it, so in effect he DOES have to work for any attention.

The odd person who goes "oh hello aren't you beautiful" and calls him and looks at him etc, he looks worried about and goes away from. I know this breed can be timid like that and he hasn't been properly socialized so it is to be expected, his instant reaction to an unknown child is usually very different and he will happily go up and hang out with them tail wagging, it is adults and older teens that come at him directly that he stays away from.

Apart from the other night there has been no incident with my son and your explanation re what happened there sounds like what it was.

The girl who previously owned him told me he was shy with new people before i met him so i went to their place, he took one look at me and took off, i went and squatted down with my back to the entrance he had left through and made a fuss of the Maltese, Zeus came and sniffed me and checked me out from behind then came around to my front and i still ignored him, after a minute or so i offered him a treat but with no eye contact or recognition, he took it and from then on he was fine with me.

He does suffer separation anxiety (the reason the girl wanted to rehome him) when he first came he couldn't stand being outside even with Stella, he would batter at the door and bark and carry on, we have never let him in while he has been doing this, waited till he moved away from the door then go and call him over, get him to sit and ask him in.He rarely bothers with that now and spends hours outside with Stella with no dramas.

The day after I got him desexed i had to keep him quiet to avoid the stitches being damaged but no-one was going to be home and i didn't want to leave him out with Stella cos they run around all day and play so i decided to leave him in my room (which is where he sleeps) did a little test run while i had a shower, he was locked in by himself and was fine. When i arrived home (3 hours later) he had pooed all over the room,(he is VERY well housetrained usually) run through it pulled all the curtains down and ripped them up, ripped a hole in the lino near the door and scratched all the paint on the door and doorway and the flyscreen from my window was on the front lawn!!

Needless to say he spent the next few days outside with Stella!

The lady (dog trainer) i have booked (according to her add) has 30 years experience, specializes in problem behaviour and is a multi-internationally certified instructor. I rang and spoke to all of the trainers in this area and apart from getting different advice (you need to stop that behaviour in the dog) "well doh I know that, that's why i am calling you to show me the best and safest and most effective way" there just seemed to be a few different "ways of thinking" from the "you need to show the dog who is boss" to " don't challenge the dog cos it could be dangerous" one lady just wanted me to send him out to her place for 3 weeks and said he would come back "fixed"......sorry!...crap!

Most of what the woman who is coming said sounded fine to me except that she was happy for me to bring him to her place which I believe would be completely useless, so i declined and said she needed to come and see him here at home with all the other animals and the setup etc, she also only comes for an hour.

She does a lot of pro bono work with rescue dogs which i like and seemed to have a good philosophy of re-establishing the pack order using body language and techniques that make sense to the dog.
Should I look around more? I have no qualms canceling, I want someone who knows what they are doing to come out, assess the dog and the situation, tell me what they see and give me techniques to use which are safe and effective and make sense to Zeus(assuming they deem this to be a suitable option)
.
At this stage when he is inside in the lounge of an evening he has to wear his halti with a lead attached, I have moved the bedding around so it is not so separate and the bed he was using now stays in the bedroom there is a different one in the lounge.

He did try and growl and intimidate Stella tonight when she came to lay down near him and i gave an instant physical correction with the lead and a loud "no" in a deep voice, i was seated on a lounge chair above him, he seemed to respond to that he looked up at me licked his lips and then just layed back down and went to sleep. Is there anything I shouldn't be doing there? Anything else I could do?

Thanks again Jill
Jodie

Answer
NO leash corrections! The dog is fearful, you're making it worse.

That trainer isn't sufficient; one hour is nothing.  Reinforcing who is "boss" is not what this dog needs to treat this aggression problem.  He has acquired a fear response, now surrounding his bed, which may in some way be related to the strong temperament (in terms of dominance) in both breeds (Mastiff and Dane) but I can't SEE that from here.  No credible behaviorist would ask you to come to their location when this sort of aggression is involved; an aggressive dog in a strange location will either behave in a manner that doesn't indicate any problem or escalate quickly and bite.  Don't waste your money.  You need a certified applied animal behaviorist with educational credentials and a strong experience base in treating active aggression, whether from fear, rank opportunism or dominance (which is EXTREMELY rare in the domestic dog).  Moving the bed he protects into your bedroom is the worst thing you can do.  The dog shouldn't be sleeping in your bedroom to begin with.  Pick UP the bed; he's still guarding it.  He can find a place on the floor.  Do NOT "correct" him, either verbally or physically; if he growls at anyone, get up immediately and calmly use the leash to remove him from the room, close a door between you and him for ten seconds, then let him back in.  Isolation like this immediately following an unwanted serious behavior does not need to be longer than it takes for the dog to lose the connection between event b (the isolation) and event a (the growl), which is about ten seconds.

When you repost, it's best to go back to the original question and answer which you will find in an email; when you follow the email link to the original answer, you can "ask another question".  I think there is a limit regarding the number of followups; having just answered you I remember this case, but I can't retain all important information adequately enough over time because I answer a lot of questions, most of which regard very serious behavior problems.

I believe I gave you a list of reading material; here's another, I have no idea how good or bad this is except that I do recognize the trainer's name and know something of her reputation, but NO aggression can be cured by reading any book:
"Aggression in Dogs: Practical Management, Prevention and Behavior Modification" by Brenda Aloff.

You persist in talking about "dominance" and training that establishes this; this is a lot of garbage, run like hell from any professional who even speaks the words.  True dominance in the domestic dog is extremely rare and never found in dogs as young as Zeus.  He's got an acquired fear response and it needs to be addressed without any aversives, coercion, punishment or the like.  I don't recall if I gave you the site below, and I don't remember what country you're in, but there are members internationally: I have no idea of their education, professional credentials, or anything else.  Every working behaviorist should have at least one strong veterinary reference, since much of the client base comes from veterinary referral, so get one; and get three client references all of whom had an aggressive dog problem:
http://www.iaabc.org/

If you're in the UK or any of its territories you can also try:
http://asab.nottingham.ac.uk/accred/reg.php