coprophagia

Question
Hi Dr. Connor,  I adopted 2 rescued boston pups (dob:8/20/08) off petfinder.com on 11/30/08. background was they were rescued from an auction to be pampered pets etc. It's a long story why we took both, place was nasty & she was leaving next day told us she didn't know what she was going to do with the other pup. the pups had been given all their shots & fixed on the same day 11/18/08 (13 wks.) which stressed their bodies. Went to my vet with them 12/1/08, had coccidia. treated for that. lethargic & coughing 12/4/08, put on clavamox. 12/9/08 both diagnosed with severe pneumonia. put on clavamox & baytril...switched vets..put on clav & doxy am/pm (cbc done) steam bath, coupage, nebulize 3 x daily. through a culture found that pneumonia stemmed from bordetella. last recent xray came back clear of pneumonia. the male has pulminary bronchitis. still steam bath & coupage am/pm. he is finishing up his meds this week. they have always had a good appetite no matter what. since the xrays came back clear i have been trying to crate train. they have always ate their stool which shocked me because i've never seen something like that except for a dog eating cats poo. i have a 4 yr old beagle that (i was looking for just one buddy for)has joined in on this after watching them. i have witnessed the pups run up while my beagle was going poop & they were trying to gobble it down as he was actually going. i have tried "accent". did absolutely nothing. So when they go out I follow with a bag when they are out to pick up ASAP. They graze in the backyard eating rabbit stool as well & that I cannot control & if I have to then they will definitely need to be rehomed.  I've switched to a natural dog food in hopes it cuts down on the amount of poop they are pooping (it was CONSTANT)& its better quality food for them. They had a bout with giardia (not sure where that came from since they go absolutely nowhere unless it was from infected rabbit stool) & i treated all dogs 6 days on panacur C. i have ordered forbid on line & am waiting for it at this point. since these pups (5 mos old now) are healthier for the most part besides the hacking up phlegm from the bronchitis & i guess whatevers left from the pneumonia, i've been trying to crate train. the male is doing fairly well. i know they can hold up to 1 hr per month but i never wait that long because they just can't or won't hold it. i've checked the size of the crate it is fine, not too big. they are in separate crates. the female had the idea at first & then something switched in her mind & now she has it backwards. she waits til she gets back in her crate & will go pee or go poop & eat it. i read to designate a potty area, so i have a small fenced in area i put her in. she sits & stares at me almost like she's crossing her arms saying "no, i'll wait". it's cold outside so i don't push it & back in the crate she goes then we try it again. i won't know til i get a whif of poo then maybe smell her lips to find out she ate it. what do you think my chances are of getting this behavior to stop. i am seriously considering letting another rescue group take her. i have spent a lot of money on them both adopting, vet bills, meds. there's a lot of issues here. my sanity, money, are they going to grow to be healthy dogs or are they going to be an ongoing money pit of health issues where they'll bring more grief than fun. this is not a good start. if i would have known they were special needs i would have NEVER considered adopting them. i've had a great dane that lived to be almost 10. her stomach flipped at the age of 3 & she survived that. i've had a mixed pointer that i got from the shelter that had mange, worms etc. she lived to be 15 & a mixed chow that lived to be 7 & passed due to cancer in the leg, which we had amputated then it went into the chest. we then adopted the beagle from the humane society & thought he needed a companion & that is my story. do you think it would be best to cut my losses now & let a rescue group find a home for these bostons. do you think i should just keep one? i would appreciate your thoughts on anything you feel would help me in this situation. Thank you for your time and honesty.

Answer
The crate training is not working; stop.

You've taken in two puppies who were bred by a human miscreant (let's hope SHE didn't breed, but I'll wager she has a bunch of kids at home.)  These puppies probably came from a puppy mill background: poor nutrition, dam (mother) being bred to literal death, living on wire, eating (when she ate) the cheapest food available.  Puppies whelped into a situation like this are starving, their dam cannot nurse them sufficiently; the dam (by instinct) cleans up (to the best of her ability) the stool of her puppies (unless she's given up, in which case what doesn't fall through the wire is left underfoot and it's better to eat that than starve.)  These puppies, effectively, came into the world with a huge deficit: their environment, their miscreant "breeder", a damaged, undernourished dam, poor food, little nutrition, etc.  You cannot crate any dog that has come from this backround; effectively, you are putting the dog back into its original environment and what it has learned (what is rewarded: nutrition) it will repeatedly perform.  Those auctions are conducted by puppy mill breeders who are DUMPING STOCK: they are NOT intended as "pampered pets", they just want to GET RID OF a financial deficit.  The rescue organization may have had good intentions (most do) but it appears to me they were ill equipped to deal with the collateral damage.

The giardia most likely came from the rabbit poop but it's a common infection that can be acquired from drinking from a puddle.  These dogs cannot be allowed to roam freely; they must be taken out on leads.  Your Beagle, because it is a scent hound and highly food oriented, has LEARNED that eating poop is rewarding; you will have to closely monitor that dog, as well.  Coprophagia is an acquired behavior (from starvation, primarily, or poor nutrition; sometimes from observation -- as your Beagle has done -- sometimes because food is gobbled quickly and is not absorbed and is then excreted in a form that is still "edible" to the dog.)  You've had these puppies a mere two months, not nearly long enough to habituate them to a house training regimen.  REWARD (not confinement to a small pen) of every single appropriate elimination will produce a dog that will CHOOSE to wait and eliminate when it is rewarded.  That reward has to be a good one: fat free cheese, chicken hot dog, etc. AND praise.  You will have to treat these two puppies individually by going out with each one separately; do NOT confine them and expect them to do what they "should", they have NO IDEA what you expect.  You must patiently and consistently (not every hour, every three hours is sufficient) TAKE THEM ON LEASH outdoors and give them 15 minutes to do their thing (EACH).  Use an extending leash, as it allows the dog some psychological freedom and will facilitate their future ability to go out and eliminate without you.  This effort will take TIME and you will have to clean up a lot of pee and poop in your home; having two makes it more difficult and complicates the issue.  BUT IT CAN BE DONE.  

Both these puppies would be dead without your loving and committed effort (not to mention huge expense.)  There are all sorts of rescue groups: some of them are an abomination (perhaps begun with good intentions but run by people who have no clue what they're doing.)  Some of them are just "okay"; some of them are beyond wonderful. To give these puppies over to a rescue group requires you do your HOMEWORK regarding that group.  First of all, they have to be a bona fide not for profit organization (in your state and with a federal tax exemption status); second, they have to have a REAL behavior expert on board (pro bono, I've done it for years for various rescue groups) and a REAL positive reinforcement trainer; third, they should have foster homes with experienced people taking charge of the rescue dogs or a facility (which passes your inspection for cleanliness) that houses these dogs; fourth, they must have community support and they must have a plethora of references (INCLUDING VETERINARY) that can testify that they are doing GOOD WORK.  You can't just turn these puppies over to any group that calls themselves "rescue"; they will crash and burn.

You've made this commitment so far; you have a long way to go.  House training is just one aspect; socialization of these puppies should have begun also, and if not DO IT NOW.  Take them out, reward their confidence, ignore their fear; judge how long and how far to take them by their behavior.  I have no doubt these dogs are psychologically blitzed by their very early experience, but they are in GOOD HANDS now: yours.  GET RID OF THE CRATES.  Keep them on house tabs (long nylon leads) indoors with you where you can observe and immediately take them (or one) out when it's apparent the puppy needs to eliminate (normally, they sniff and circle); when you can't observe them, confine them to the kitchen where it's easier to disinfect and remove elimination.  A puppy kindergarten class (where ALL PUPPIES are in the SAME DEVELOPMENTAL STAGE and ONLY positive reinforcement is used) will help you socialize them and a good trainer (experienced, with credentials), who is running this class, can give you support and encouragement.  We don't know about the future health issues: read about inherited faults in Boston Terriers and ask your veterinarian to assess their risk.  The present health issues, although enormous, are being resolved.  "More grief than fun"...nobody promised you a rose garden. Nor me.  You took on this challenge.  Don't give up.