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Internal Parasite Infection

22 16:39:51

Question
QUESTION: Hi Mark,
I have a male land/terrestrial turtle i bought a few days ago, i'm not sure about his age but i guess he is around 5-7 years old maybe more cause his shell is 7 inches long, since i bought him, he have no appetite for eating at all and he didn't eat anything for about 3 days..besides he is very lazy and always sleeping on some corner. sometimes i notice his head and front legs are moving forward and backward all together in a way like if he was running for a hundred miles, all those symptoms made me concerned and i made sure something is wrong and that i should know, until then, i started to feed him by hand some lettuce each day and he is chewing and swallowing it, i also give him some water on his mouth using a plastic syringe i took off it's needle. i force him a bit to open his mouth and feed and give him water. the most important now and what made me know what exactly his problem is, is that when i was giving him a warm bath 2 days ago he made droppings of his feces inside the water i was using to wash him and when i took a close look i found small white worms moving on it, the one is between 1-2 mm long which made me pretty sure he have Internal parasites infection.
I checked his nose earlier and it's normally dry and there is no clue of any additional respiratory diseases. it's just the parasite infection.
He have the lower part of his bottom shell a bit soft, and when he is moving he is kinda dragging his hind legs, i guess that's cause of the same infeciton.
Unfortunately, there is no local vet where i live which specialize on turtles, they all know about birds, dogs, cats..etc. and i'm afraid someone will give him a bad prescription which would kill him. and the pet shop owner i bought the turtle from is clueless and have no experience at all on turtles.
I want to ask about a home remedy based on chemicals or non-chemicals i can give it to my turtle myself using oral treatment or something like an alternative medicine without the need of a vet?
also i want to ask, can i use a very small dose of human anti-parasite chemicals for my turtle, and which specific chemicals are safe for it?
I kept searching and reading online alot on different websites about turtle diseases and treatment but had no direct answer, most advice seeing a vet.
I don't give my turtle any live food, just greens like lettuce and may be carrots and water.
I guess i should give it a warm bath once in a while to clean his stomach from those growing worms cause as you know they prefer to move to the warmer environment which is the washing water in this case until i found a real treatment.
Your detailed and specific advice are greatly appreciated
Kind Regards,,
ANSWER: It would REALLY hep to know the species of tortoise we are talking about- it makes a HUGE diffrence in the advicde to give you. It would also help to know about the currnet housing- size, temps, etc.

Internal parasites are common in most wild-caught tortoises and turtles, but not generally a problem in captive bred animals raised in good conditions.

The parasites themselves are not the problem- they only bother animals that are stressed in other ways, and it sounds like your turtle is badly stressed.

The most common reasons a turtle acts like what you are describing are things like:
- diet- lettuce is not a good diet for most turtles, and many of them NEED meats in the diet- one reason it would help to know the species involved
- temperature- most tortoises need temps in the 80s most of the time, but some need it even warmer in some places, and others get heat stress if the temps are too high
- dehydration- drinking water and soaks can help, but many species need very high humidity while others need very low humidity (except for a humid hiding place).

There are other care issues that might also be involved.

As for meds for parasites- you have to be very, very careful. Parasite meds are basically powerful poisons given at just the right level to kill the parasite without hurting the host too badly (all parasite meds, human or animal, stress the host.)

Many meds on the market for parasites kill turtles quickly, so I cannot recommend that. Also, there are no useful alternative treatments I know of.

However, if the turtle is otherwise being well cared for, the parasites don't matter much.

Pop me back a note with this info:
- species
- description of housing
- temperatures, and how you are providing them and monitoring them
- lighting and humidity
- complete diet- what do you feed, how much, and when?
- other animals in the same cage?

I can offer better advice at that point.

You can try a great website in the meantime: http://www.tortoisetrust.org

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hello again Mark,
Thanks for your quick and kind reply. and for the website you gave me.
I strongly believe it's a wild caught turtle, this possiblity is around 99% cause i heared from the pet shop seller that they bring it from the desert from a neighbor country which is Libya, I'm from Egypt, and on this case this turtle was living on the desert on almost dry places with very low humidity and with the lack of water. I wish i have a digital camera or something right now so i would take u pictures of it and upload somewhere on the internet and give u the link. I will try to get one later if it's necessary.
I also searched google images for similar turtle pictures and here is the links for some pictures i collected, my turtle not exactly but similar:
he have the same shape of the round shell and much similar to the turtle on this pic:
http://sc2.saugus.k12.ca.us/~ltalmadge/images/Turtle.jpg
But the geometric shape on the back of the shell is smaller in size and the shell is a little curved from the back end to downside and a more half inch wider than the width of the rest of the shell, as i will describe here on the few coming lines. But his colors is different, it's much similar to the turtle on this pic:
http://x0a.xanga.com/260857f3d75325737638/b4898116.jpg
a mixture of black and light yellow areas.
Weight:
I weighted him today and he is exactly 655 grams (total weight indluding shell and body of course), I thought this little info should be very helpful too.
description:
my turtle have a round shell with black areas and light yellow background and from far behind his shell is curved downside to the ground. and he have a little concavity on his bottom shell near the center. i'm talking about his natural description of course not because of the disease.
housing:
I prepared a place for him to live on my balcony, I intended to make it as near as possible to his original habitat which is desert i believe.
the housing measurment:
length : 115.5 cm/45.5 inches
width  : 88 cm/34.6 inches
i also made him a sand bedding of 2 cm deep
which give him a wide area to move freely, this is about 80 times his own size (which is 7 inches long, 4.5 inches wide except the back end which is 5 inches wide)
i made him also a pasking or shadow place on one corner which is 25 cm width, 48 cm length.
feeding:
I feed him only lettuce and carrots once a day and not on certain time to be honest..it's just once i remember but basiclly it's through the day light and i'm aware of feeding him everyday now lately and i never forget, I know it's not enough nutrients for him and he should have more vitamins and minerals, but i have read somewhere online that parasite infection should avoid live food beside feeding only fibers until the problem is over. I feed him small pieces of lettuce of around 15 grams.
I bought him earthworms few days ago (just because i read about it online) before i know about his infection and i offered him a live one to increase his appetite and give him more nutrients, but he didn't care for it, and i didn't force him or cut the worm into pieces and put inside his mouth as i think i should.
i'm thinking of putting small drops of human vitamins and minerlas (copper, zinc, iron, vitamins a,b..etc) on his water and give it to him using the plastic syringe. Is that okay?
I only feed lettuce, carrots and was trying earthworms just because i had read about it online (except lettuce of course which is very common for turtles) and i don't try anything else until i have knowlwedge of even if it was greens too. cause i don't like trying on him different types of food and found him died or something oneday. so now it's only greens. and unfortunately there is no specialized manufactured foods for turtles on the markets here as far as i know. I will try to order them online if i have to. cause they must be balanced diets and full of nutrients. But it will take a long time on shipping around 3 or 4 weeks to arrive!
so i should think of alternative thing to feed those days.
later after i knew about his infection of parasites i thank god i didn't force him to eat earthworms or maybe his case will be worse now.
lighting,  humidity and temperature:
Here in Egypt where i live the humidity those days is about 35% and temperature is between 63 and 87 Fahrenheit degree ( equal to between 17 and 30 Celsius degrees).
Today it was 84 Fahrenheit/29 Celsius degree during the day light and humidity is 35% in Cairo. I Think this temperature is similar to the degree you adviced on your message (80s) for most turtles and would be a good thing naturally without any external heating equipments.
His housing as i described above he have around 9 hours of light from the sun and at night i bring him inside my room on a small cardboard box (cause i fear the cold at him) and i do cover him with a heavy piece of cloth to make the box totally dark to allow him to sleep restfully and remove any stress with a bit of ventilation. and next morning everyday i put him back on his place on my balcony around 9 or 10 O'clock ( until it's a bit warm) in the morning until the sunset.
I don't try to carry him everywhile or let anyone do, and just leave him alone unless i'm feeding him i have to hold him.
I have read that land turtles prefer warm weather. that's why i try my best to not make him prone to any cold temperature.
He have no animals whatsoever of any kind on the same housing with him or even outside, no cats, dogs or any other more turtles.
I have a free fish aquarium i can clean and put him inside those days if it's necessary to maintain a high humidity for him and to be like a nursery place for him if you adviced me.
I'm planning to buy him a female tortoise later of the same size and age but it's not available at this current time on the pet shop that's why i'm waiting.
I'm planning to breed more turtles after he is okay and i get a female one.
He is almost sleeping all the time and not eating unless i feed him myself. I'm afraid he die or something if he kept like this, and i will feel bad if i have something on my hands i could do for him and i haven't.
I hope i have provided all the detailed information necessary above to help you give me the best and most wise decision depends on your experience and knowledge.
I'm waiting for ur reply
Thank you again so much for your time and effort :)
My Best Regards for you..

Answer
OK, lets see if we can lock down the species first. The pictures you sent were what appears to be an American Eastern Box Turtle, and an American Wood Turtle. I suspect, from you description, that it is either...

Egyptian Tortoise (Testudo kleinmanni)- http://www.austinsturtlepage.com/world_of_turtles/Egyptian_Tortoises_-_Testudo_k

or a Hermann's Tortoise (T. hermanni)- http://www.austinsturtlepage.com/world_of_turtles/Western_Hermans_Tortoises_-_Te

or a Greek Tortoise (T. graeca or T. iberia)- http://www.austinsturtlepage.com/world_of_turtles/Greek_Tortoises_-_Testudo_iber

or a Marginated Tortoise (T. marginata)- http://www.austinsturtlepage.com/world_of_turtles/Marginated_Tortoises_-_Testudo

The Marginated seems like a good possibility.

These guys are all from your general area, and have similar cares.


You need to rethink pretty much everything. Your diet for it is not a healthy one, the housing and indoor box need to be tweaked, etc.

Some good care resources include:
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/articles.html#husbandry
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/care/cgraeca.html
http://www.tlady.clara.net/TortGuide/Diet.htm
http://www.tlady.clara.net/TortGuide/index.htm

I would not worry about a mate or breeding until this tortoise was healthy and happy, which is going to take some time and effort on your part.

Good luck!