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Health question #2

22 11:34:41

Question
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Hi Gina,
Thank you again for your quick response to my first question. Cadbury is drinking and eating pellets. How much pellets should he be getting a day? My daughter usually fills the dish, this may not be a good idea?
I just checked on Cadbury and his stool was shaped like a hot dog, long, tiny pellets all clumped together. It has Never been this long since we have gottenim. But he still has some normal pellets in there also, smaller than usual but not as wet. He does go "alot" we scoop the cage out everyday and change the pine shavings and litter once a week. He also gets a bath once a week, SHould I give him a bath? His stoll is stuck to his rear and his male parts seem to be showing, I have never noticed them before?
Thanks again,

Linda







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Followup To
Question -
Hi,
We have ourdauughters classroom rabbit home with us for the summer. Cadbury has quickly become a member of the family.
He doesn't seem to be himself. He is laying in his litterbox alot. His poop ( sorry) is getting rather soft, last ight he was breathing very fast. Today he seems to be breathing normal? Is it because it has been so warm? We placed a ceramic tile in the cage to cool him off. What should we do? Should we take him to the vet or is there something we can do at home first. Thanks so much for your help.
Linda

Answer -
Cadbury rabbit may have a mild case of diarrhea, causing loose stools that clump, or be producing excess cecal pellets. I'll address the first possibility first.

Diarrhea in rabbits is serious, and the worse (more liquid) it is the more
serious the situation. If it is just sticky at this point that's good, but
of course keep monitoring the situation.

Monitor the rabbit's water consumption and ensure that he is drinking. If
a water bottle is being used and the rabbit is not drinking, try a water
bowl for a while to encourage him. Diarrhea can quickly lead to  dehydration and a downward spiral.

How is he eating? You might try cutting down on her pellets a bit and see if he will increase his
hay consumption (you are feeding him hay, right? This fiber is extremely important). However, if he becomes anorexic, then greens, carrots,
pellets, or even starches such as oats should be offered to
keep food in his system.

 If he stops eating at all for 24 hours, at this
point (since he is already
 compromised), you will need to feed him and make an appointment with a
vet. Unlike dogs and cats, rabbits
 cannot fast. They must have food going through their systems to keep the
 beneficial bacteria, or flora, in their digestive tracts healthy. If
there  is no food and fiber for the  beneficial flora to "eat," dangerous
 bacteria such as Clostridium can "take over" and cause illness that is
 likely to lead to death.

 (The following is just in case this happens... Hopefully you won't need
this information!) If you need to get some food down him, obtain a large
syringe (no
needle) or similar
 device and fill it with a soft food such as carrot baby food or canned
 pumpkin. Flip him over on his back and insert the tip of the syringe
 behind his incisors. If the syringe has a long enough tip, it helps to
 nudge the back of his throat with that to induce a swallowing reflex.
He  will not enjoy this experience, and you will probably get messy. Try
to  get him to swallow an ounce of food the first time. If there is a delay
in  getting him to a knowledgeable vet, you may need to feed him again. If
 nothing is moving in his system, you don't want to overload the stomach,
 but he must have at least some food.

If he has not been drinking, give him   syringes of water.

Does his tummy seem distended and firmer than normal? He may be experiencing bloating from gas. A safe home remedy you could try if so is to give him some simethicone. This is sold for people over the counter under brand names such as Gas X, Phazyme or even store brands. Use the liquid kind for infants and give a dropperful a couple of times a day and see if this helps.

OK back to causes of diarrhea. Several possibilities. He may have gastroenteritis and need antibiotics to overcome it. Or, he could be in gastrointestinal
stasis, which sometimes can result in diarrhea.

For more information about GI stasis and its treatment, see
http://www.rabbit.org/care/gi-stasis.html
and http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-7/gi.html

 Not all vets are equally knowledgeable about rabbits. The page
http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/vet.html has suggestions on how to find   one. There is a list of some vets at
http://www.rabbit.org/care/vets.html

If no vet is close to you, if your vet is willing to consult by
 telephone, it should be well worth the possible consulting fee.

 Other than the causes mentioned above, excess carbohydrates, a
 change in diet, stress, allergies, poor quality feed, an excess of
 vegetables if the rabbit is not used to eating large quantities of them,
 or infection can all be factors in diarrhea.

If a low-level diarrhea continues without going into a crisis, try changing your hay or feed
 source. You can obtain hay at a local feed store, where you may find large
 quantities but it will be cheap and probably fairly fresh, or you can buy   "minibales" of hay at pet stores, which are more expensive but come in
 smaller quantities.

Sometimes you just might get a "bad" bag of feed--if the above remedies
don't do the trick, you could try a different brand or just a new bag.

 You might think about giving some beneficial bacteria supplement if gut
 flora (the bacteria that live naturally in the digestive tract and allow
 rabbits to digest things like grass and hay) are seriously out of whack.
 Some vets are very supportive of
 this kind of supplement and others are convinced it does no good but is
 generally not harmful. I think if you search for "acidophilus" or "flora"
 on the House Rabbit Society site you may pull up some articles on this
 topic. You could get a specific veterinary product such as "Bene-Bac,"
or   give him acidophilus powder, or see if he will eat a few teaspoons of
 live-culture, non-fat, fruit-juice-sweetened only yogurt.

Another possibility is that Cadbury is producing excess cecal pellets.
These are special excreta that the rabbit normally ingests directly from
the anus (yes, it's icky, but they ingest a lot of important nutrients this way after processing them through their digestive system). Cecal
pellets are very different than normal fecal pellets. Fecal pellets are normally roundish, dry, and almost without odor, while cecal pellets are
very soft, sticky, small but usually emitted in grapelike clusters, and quite smelly. If this is what you're seeing, especially if you are continuing to see some normal fecal pellets in the rabbit's
cage tray or litterbox, then an overproduction of cecal pellets is the likely problem.

Within the ------ below is an explanation of an approach to this problem
from the House Rabbit Society Website, found on the specific page http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-8/soft-stools.html

---------------------
Carolynn Harvey, DVM, responds:

         Thanks to Dr. Susan Brown and Dr. Jeff Jenkins, we have come to
realize that chronic soft clumping cecal
         stools (as opposed to the neat "bunch of grapes" of normal
cecal output) result from a carbohydrate
         overload in the diet, and a relative fiber deficiency. This can
result from feeding the wrong mix of foods, or
         just too much of a good thing. Limiting "concentrates" in the
diet (pellets, grains, breads, fruit, etc.) is usually
         effective in controlling the problem. Start with a health exam
and fecal flotation for parasites. If the
         veterinarian finds no other problems, gradually change the diet
toward a goal of:

         1. High-fiber pellets
         (20-25%) in strictly limited amounts (no more than 1 /4 cup per
5 lb. of ideal body weight)

         2. Unlimited fresh, appetizing grass hay

         3. One-half to 2 cups of fresh greens per day

         4. Carbohydrate treats (bread, fruit, pasta, etc) should not be
fed during the recovery period, can be added
         back in small amounts (1-2 Tbsp per day) when stool has
normalized.

         Dr. Brown often takes rabbits completely off pellets
temporarily or permanently with good results. I take the
         more moderate approach above.
---------------------------

I know this is a lot of information, but digestive problems in rabbits can be quite tricky!  Good luck to both of you.

Gina

Answer
OK, some good new info! The clustered nature of the squishy poop you are noticing sounds like the cecal pellets explained above. They are really smelly, too. So we can go forward on the assumption that he is producing too many of them, causes of which are also addressed above.

As to how much in pellets he should be eating... depends on his age. Do you all know? If he is less than a year old, unlimited pellets are fine. However, if he is not eating his hay, you will need to cut down his pellets until he learns to eat it. I can't overemphasize how critical it is to feed him hay. Rabbits are "designed" to eat a LOT of long fibrous materials, not commercia rabbit pellets. Using pellets is fine as long as a rabbits gets plenty of long fiber in the form of hay, safe grass, and leafy veggies. Choose a low-calcium hay such as timothy, oat straw, orchard grass, or coastal hay. You can get hay cheap but in quantity (usually by the bale) at a feed store, or more expensively but conveniently at a pet supply store. There are also mail order places to buy hay.

As to his "male parts" showing: if he is 3-4 months old, his testicles may have just now descended into the scrotal sac and that's why you are seeing them. If he is older, I'm not sure why they would be more prominent now. If he's young, I would advise you to suggest to the school that they have him neutered by a competent rabbit vet. This will cut down on possible aggression and spraying, neither of which are a good idea for a rabbit who is around children.

Rabbits groom themselves more than cats, so don't need to have baths at all unless they get particularly dirty for some reason. If he is getting soiled, a "butt bath" in the sink rather than an allover bath is recommended. Baths are very stressful for rabbits as they instinctively avoid getting soaked. Be sure to dry thoroughly so he doesn't get too chilled, even in summer.

How fat is this little guy? Do you ever see him bend over so he can clean his "private parts"? If he is too fat to do so, he needs to lose weight. More hay, fewer pellets, and no starches and sugars.

Here's the House Rabbit Society FAQ on diet, with recommendations on pellet amounts for various ages:
http://rabbit.org/faq/sections/diet.html

Also, on an unrelated note: nix the pine shavings. The nice-smelling chemical in pine and cedar is, in the long term, harmful to the rabbit liver. Here's a link to an article about it, which I would encourage you to provide to the school as well. It talks about what kinds of litters are safe for rabbits, with a link to a more in-depth article on the specific problems with pine and cedar shavings.
http://rabbit.org/faq/sections/litter.html#litter

If he is in a cage with a pullout tray, just use newspaper or junk mail in the tray. If he is in a cage with a flat plastic bottom so that you need to use bedding, you can try using newspaper, frequently changed, but many rabbits will shred and eat too much of this. If newspaper doesn't work for Cadbury, I recommend a recycled paper litter, which is soft, absorbent, and safe.

Good luck!

Gina